Rear Wheel out of true again

[bad boy]

Hi All,

Just a question regarding my back wheel.

I have read other threads regarding wheel truing etc but I just wanted to know what do you do if the spokes on the opposite side of the bend/wobble are as tight as they can go ?.

My back wheel is a hand built Mavic Open pro on a deore disk hub !.

Normally I get a loose spoke on the non drive side and the lbs trued it last time and applied spoke freeze, but I was a little worried that the spoke tension was not equal and they just trued it not re-tensioned it !?.

Being as this seems to happen about once every 2/3 months what are my options do you feel ?. My wheel at the moment is not bad id say about 2mm out is this acceptable or should I pay another 15 notes to get it sorted ?.

 

[accountantpete]

what do you do if the spokes on the opposite side of the bend/wobble are as tight as they can go ?.

Slacken the spokes very slightly on the side to which the wheel is tending to go out - just the spokes in the local area of the problem.

With handbuilts I found that they needed a tweek every month or so - it may be worthwhile getting a spoke key and correcting these minor faults yourself. It's not difficult as you slightly tighten spokes to pull the rim back into line and slightly slacken spokes on the other side to assist this process.

 

[bad boy]

Thanks I do have a spoke key and done a minor adjustment last night but was scared of making things worse. I understand the basic principles but appreciate there is an art to it.

Some people say that a well built wheel should not need to be touched but on the roads in London is the same statement true ?.

 

[accountantpete]

Thanks I do have a spoke key and done a minor adjustment last night but was scared of making things worse. I understand the basic principles but appreciate there is an art to it.

Some people say that a well built wheel should not need to be touched but on the roads in London is the same statement true ?.

From my experience even the best built wheels tend to go out (especially the lighter road bike wheels) as they do absorb a lot of sudden impacts from potholes etc.

And don't forget, wheelbuilders are like anything else-there are good ones and bad ones.

 

[I am Spartacus]

Just having a tea break plus buttered tea cake right now as in the middle of doing exactly that - trueing up the rear Mavik Aksium.
Good study wheel but bashed a grid yesterday unavoidably...

I loosened spokes to a lower tension as I dont want to have over tight spokes suddenly snapping on me...

That made wheel look even worse .. as it does .. then slowly and I mean slowly with spoke key went round each spoke gently tweaking until it is now more or less 99,99% there

Patience and knowing which way spokes go .. but thats what Park Tools website is all about................

 

[gwhite]

From my experience even the best built wheels tend to go out (especially the lighter road bike wheels) as they do absorb a lot of sudden impacts from potholes etc.

And don't forget, wheelbuilders are like anything else-there are good ones and bad ones.

If this has been your experience then I would question the quality of your wheels. A good hand-built wheel should not require any tweaking at all if it has been properly tensioned. Lighter road wheels are certainly more vulnerable but the above comments apply o them also.

 

[bad boy]

If this has been your experience then I would question the quality of your wheels. A good hand-built wheel should not require any tweaking at all if it has been properly tensioned. Lighter road wheels are certainly more vulnerable but the above comments apply o them also.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, its a very broad statement to make especially when there are lots of variables to take into consideration.

If we are cycling on virgin asphalt then maybe, but when I keep hearing this it makes me wonder whether my wheel was poorly built.

But then the roads are so bad in London am I expecting too much or are statements like the above not to be taken literally ?

 

[swee'pea99]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, its a very broad statement to make especially when there are lots of variables to take into consideration.

If we are cycling on virgin asphalt then maybe, but when I keep hearing this it makes me wonder whether my wheel was poorly built.

But then the roads are so bad in London am I expecting too much or are statements like the above not to be taken literally ?

I do 70-80 miles a week in London - admittedly mostly on the same route, so I know every pothole and so can avoid them 9 times out of 10 - but I just checked out the front wheel that came off the old Carlton I bought that was probably 35 years old, and it's perhaps 1mm off perfect....and has been for the last five years. I've never trued it in all that time.

 

[PpPete]

For me the clue is in the OP.
He seems to have had a recurring loose spoke problem.....
With all due respect to his LBS, applying spoke freeze is not the answer.
And the pot-hole of London are unlikely to be the problem (IMO)

I've hand-built Open Pro rims, and then tried to hammer the guts out of them by taking them off-road (!). If you really try you can put them slightly out of true - and then re-true them easily. What I've yet to get is any loose spokes - or any that are so damn tight they can't go any further.

Based on the above...it's build quality. My money says the spoke tensions were out in the first place.

Only thing I'm not sure about is disk hubs, I've never used them, so I don't know if they'd change any of the basic principles?

 

[bad boy]

For me the clue is in the OP.
He seems to have had a recurring loose spoke problem.....
With all due respect to his LBS, applying spoke freeze is not the answer.
And the pot-hole of London are unlikely to be the problem (IMO)

I've hand-built Open Pro rims, and then tried to hammer the guts out of them by taking them off-road (!). If you really try you can put them slightly out of true - and then re-true them easily. What I've yet to get is any loose spokes - or any that are so damn tight they can't go any further.

Based on the above...it's build quality. My money says the spoke tensions were out in the first place.

Only thing I'm not sure about is disk hubs, I've never used them, so I don't know if they'd change any of the basic principles?

Unfortunately I would have to agree then porkypete, I did post a while back about spoke freeze and realise its not the answer to the underlined problem, however I have had the wheel trued by 2 different shops and Evans even supposedly re-tensioned the whole wheel for me 2 weeks later same again !.

I have been told as its not a disk specific rim it could be causing the problems.

I am bit ocd and a few people have looked at it and said so what its not rubbing on the brake blocks as I don't have any so unless it gets much worse carry on and keep your eye on it..... but its bugging me I reckon its out by about 3mm now!.

By the way in case your wondering Im 12 stone 10

 

[PpPete]

In my (fairly limited) experience of wheelbuilding - if it was built badly at first, no amount of re-truing or "re-tensioning" is going to make it right.

Even with a featherweight rider like you, that 3 mm will probably get worse, then you'll break something (hopefully only a spoke or two)

Incidentally, what sort of spokes has it got ? DB or plain gauge? or plain gauge drive/DB non-drive? 32 or 36? standard 3X pattern? Have you checked the dishing? I'm clutching at straws here.... .

 

[bad boy]

32 hole standard on both sides !.

Incidentally I just the last hour having my first attempt at truing it !!.

I must say its now nearly perfect I am really pleased....over the moon in fact .

I am aware as you say porkypete that no doubt it will happen again but at least I can patch it up now when it does ?.

I didn't loosen any spokes as the non drive side was rather loose anyway I understand it should be looser than the drive side but still felt too loose so I tightened the offending ones first and went from there it seems good now

 

[PpPete]

Well done !

Non-drive will always have less tension, but all spokes should be tight enough sound a clear note when "plucked" like a guitar string. Drive side will be a noticeably higher note. All the spokes on each side would ideally sound the same note, in practice you won't get them quite the same.
If you have some spokes that are very "flat" - wind them up, they won't be affecting wheel trueness much until you've got tension in them.

 

[gwhite]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, its a very broad statement to make especially when there are lots of variables to take into consideration.

If we are cycling on virgin asphalt then maybe, but when I keep hearing this it makes me wonder whether my wheel was poorly built.

But then the roads are so bad in London am I expecting too much or are statements like the above not to be taken literally ?

I have the experience to back up the above, "broad" or not.
The Mavic MA40 I built with Campag Chorus hubs, never needed re-tensioning in over 15 years. Touring wheels used for loaded touring, built by my friend, never needed touching, again over this period. If your wheels are made by someone who knows their business (Paul Hewitt or Pete Mathews comes to mind) then they should not need constant attention.

 

[GrahamG]

With handbuilts I found that they needed a tweek every month or so - it may be worthwhile getting a spoke key and correcting these minor faults yourself. It's not difficult as you slightly tighten spokes to pull the rim back into line and slightly slacken spokes on the other side to assist this process.

You obviously aren't getting very good builds! A well built wheel will need no tweeking whatsoever - sounds like the OP's shop is doing a crap job to me.