Risk assessment

[Jonathan M]

the fecking elf & safety fairies caught up with me today

I've recently been diagnosed with a medical condition that was diagnosed after a seizure, so driving licence surrendered for 12 months. I've started using the bike more to get son to school, and for me to then get into work. My job can include some off site stuff (I'm a nurse in an NHS trust but my jobs include some community based work) and while my employers have said that I'm able to use hospital financed taxis I've also expressed willingness to use the bike on some of the work closer to the main site - anything within 5 miles can be done as easily with the bike as with 4 wheeled transport. public transport is an option, but timings & locations of where I need to be are not always suitable for public transport.

But today my occupational health dept, who I'm under on a phased return to work programme, advised me that due to concerns about the Trusts liability in me using the bike on trust business, that until a risk assessment is done i am not to use the bike on work business. B@stard. Particularly as the concerns were raised by a "worried" colleague, who passed her thoughts onto management without talking to me first


So has anyone else been in such a postion, if so do you have a copy of your risk assessment that i could see. I'm slightly concerned that the elf & safety fairy involved (who is about 17 stone BTW) will be looking at things from a point of view of "how can we stop this man cycling", rather than a constructive "how can this man use his bike safely on work business".

 

[upsidedown]

Can you not take the lardy H&S rep on a ride around the route ? Would be good for a laugh if nothing else.
Then wait for the report and ignore it.

 

[ttcycle]

Sorry to hear this - sounds tricky. Unfortunately I haven't had said risk assessment myself but I suppose they will be trying to look at the severity of your condition ie what type of seizures youare possibly currently likely to be affected by.

I hope your H&S person is human - often they're real unhelpful jobsworths.

Good luck mate - hope you get to stay on the bike

 

[Jonathan M]

Sorry to hear this - sounds tricky. Unfortunately I haven't had said risk assessment myself but I suppose they will be trying to look at the severity of your condition ie what type of seizures youare possibly currently likely to be affected by.

I hope your H&S person is human - often they're real unhelpful jobsworths.

Good luck mate - hope you get to stay on the bike

The medical aspect complicates things, as although I'm not cycling against medical advice, some organisations do advise people with seizure disorders not to cycle - or at least cycle with others.

I can't really take the lardy H&S rep around a particular route, as where i would need to go could vary on a daily basis.

As far as jobsworth, i don't know the guy well enough, but I know that higher echelons of the MHS can be populated by them!

I'll see how things go and let people know progress.

 

[fossyant]

TBH...the best way - ride in to work as you do, get cleaned up and travel to the other site via a 'suitable' transport....taxi or bus...... they are not concerned how YOU get to work, but inter site travel...pah......

I ride between sites, but I bet no-one has considered I ride a CTW bike on business as well...oh if it broke (not that it will).....

 

[garrilla]

I suppose as an anti-PC person you're not in the union?

 

[ttcycle]

The medical aspect complicates things, as although I'm not cycling against medical advice, some organisations do advise people with seizure disorders not to cycle - or at least cycle with others.

Unfortunately I suppose work's stance is that they wouldn't want anything to happen to you whilst you're at work as then they'd be culpable for it. I suppose they could be very cautious as well as some type of seizures involve people literally 'zoning out' and staring for a couple of seconds to minutes and is different to the common 'grand mal seizure' - arm yourself with plenty of info and be fully honest about what your condition entails.

It doesn't help that they're being punitive about your cycling though - do bear in mind that they need to make reasonable adjustments for you to travel from place to place ie considerations to time if you have to get public transport and other tweaks to enable you to do your job well.

You're also entitled to have someone sit in on your meetings to advocate for you ie union rep if they're any good or a friend/colleague.

Good luck and I hope this works out for you.

 

[fossyant]

TBH it's rubbish..........

I ride between sites, bet no-one is interested if I get squashed.....

Interfering pansies...............

 

[andyfromotley]

For my sins, i am a Cohse trained risk assessor. Although i havent done one for your type of situation the principles are easy to transfer.

If you want to when one is done you can e mail it to me and i will cast an eye over it.

Essentially though they will have to measure identified risks against two things

1. Likely seriousness if the risk occurred. Cycling pretty easy to say, crash = injury ranging from minor to death.

2. Likelyhood of risk occurring. If they want to stop you doing soething it will show up here, the will over estimate the likelyhood.

thus when the two factors are combined on a matrix and the end result will put it into a catagory deeming the activity too dangerous. If gthey do this go back to them with evidence that they have overestimated this and insist that it is revisited.

Unfortunately the risk asessment business at this level involves a huge degree of opinion from the person who is carrying out the assessment. PM me if can assist you, andy

 

[jonny jeez]

For my sins, i am a Cohse trained risk assessor. Although i havent done one for your type of situation the principles are easy to transfer.

If you want to when one is done you can e mail it to me and i will cast an eye over it.

Essentially though they will have to measure identified risks against two things

1. Likely seriousness if the risk occurred. Cycling pretty easy to say, crash = injury ranging from minor to death.

2. Likelyhood of risk occurring. If they want to stop you doing soething it will show up here, the will over estimate the likelyhood.

thus when the two factors are combined on a matrix and the end result will put it into a catagory deeming the activity too dangerous. If gthey do this go back to them with evidence that they have overestimated this and insist that it is revisited.

Unfortunately the risk asessment business at this level involves a huge degree of opinion from the person who is carrying out the assessment. PM me if can assist you, andy

What a pain in the neck!!

Am I right in assuming 2 points; (Andy, is this right?)

1) Risk assessments carried out by an employer are to asses the risk of litigation against them in the event of an issue …in other words, if they think they may be sued, they will stop you riding…therefore, it's in their interests to be "overly" cautious?

2) This just covers occupational activity, surely your choice of travel to and from work is at your own risk and therefore your own choice. So I assume nothing to stop you dropping your son off and doing the commute ride that you do each day?

I fear that, at the end of the day your riding "for" work days are somewhat numbered, make the most of the riding "to" work miles.

Hope it all works out well.

The friendly colleague thing is a double edged sword, they obviously do care about you but felt to uncomfortable to discuss it to your face, don’t be too harsh, they may have been seeking advice on the issue through genuine concern and it all got a little out of control.

Alternatively, they hate you and all cyclists and are out to spoil all your fun (which it sounds like you deserve from what I can gather)…this seems unlikely.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out…wishing you all the best for a good outcome!!

Jonny

 

[andyfromotley]

What a pain in the neck!!

Am I right in assuming 2 points; (Andy, is this right?)

1) Risk assessments carried out by an employer are to asses the risk of litigation against them in the event of an issue …in other words, if they think they may be sued, they will stop you riding…therefore, it's in their interests to be "overly" cautious?

2) This just covers occupational activity, surely your choice of travel to and from work is at your own risk and therefore your own choice. So I assume nothing to stop you dropping your son off and doing the commute ride that you do each day?



Jonny

1) No the purpose of a risk assessment is to identify risks, remove them or reduce the danger that they present. One beneficial side effect if that if you can show that you have treated this process seriously if an accident happens your chances of being sued are much less. Or if you are sued the damges should be much less.

2) Yup, its called health and safety at work act. If they try and tell you how to travel to and from work tell em to swivel.

 

[jonny jeez]

1) One beneficial side effect if that if you can show that you have treated this process seriously if an accident happens your chances of being sued are much less. Or if you are sued the damges should be much less.

.

when you say "you" I assume you mean the employer.

In which case, it sounds as if Jonathan's best action is to assist as much as possible (its not going to go away) and hope that a policy can be agreed that "protects" both parties and allows his continued use of the bike for work....get stuck in Jonathan, involve yourself and work with them...the process has begun, best you make the most of it.

Meanwhile, dont give up commuting or dropping off your son.

(Its amazing the advice you can get from this forum, we have such a mixed bag of professionals to call upon)

 

[Nortones2]

RA involves weighing up the risks, and vitally, considering what might be done to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. That could mean personal protective clothing, training etc. A decision, for example, that the risks were at an unacceptable level, without considering steps that could be taken, would be very subjective and challengeable. Would be beneficial also to ensure that positive aspects of cycling, rather than driving, be taken into account. SFAIK, the police have not been deterred from cycle use. HSE did not pronounce against it in relation to Royal Mail. What's more, HSE have been advocating cycle use internally. http://tinyurl.com/ybxvr8z TU support might be needed, particularly if in doubt about the competence/motives of the assessor. I see this crossed with andyfromotleys post, with which I agree!

 

[andyfromotley]

when you say "you" I assume you mean the employer.

QUOTE]

yes i did mean 'the employer'. Although the act does place responsibilities upon individual employees. One of the main ones is that you must comply with processes put in place to ensure H&S. But in the main the responsibilities are the employers.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

..they hate you.........and are out to spoil all your fun.

That is what Health and safety are for!

We have two in my company, Coco the clown and Spud face. Although their line is 'we're not here to stop you working, just to work safer' they like nothing better than sticking the boot in where it isn't needed. The 'well meaning' collegue sounds like a nosey interfering tosspot too.

I hope it works out for you