Route Planning

[JonnyBlade]

So who is the route planning expert on this forum?
I need a cycling route from Gosport in Hampshire to Newcastle, around the 330 mile mark, that doesn't spend much time on the busy 'a' roads. Need to be able to complete the route in 2 days to cover approximately 11 hours a day.
I've been through the route on many occasions now taking various direction but I thought I'd ask if anyone on here has a grip on this sort of thing


Jonny

 

[JonnyBlade]

There must be an expert somewhere

 

[HaloJ]

Folks were likely asleep or heading to work during the time of your first two posts.

When I'm creating routes I tend to start by using google maps and working up it's suggested route from the start pulling it onto B and back roads. After which I hit street view to check out the route and the more complex junctions. After that I export it and bring it into the likes of bike route toaster or ridewithgps for an elevation plan. The reason I start with Google is their navigation system for road users is less likely to take you the wrong way up a road which I find ridewithgps does and bikeroutetoaster isn't very nice for modifying a route once it's created.

All in all it's a hell of a lot of work but so far has led to good results and happy people on my rides.

Abs

 

[JonnyBlade]

Abs,

Thanks very much for taking the time. Looks like I have a better way forward now

Jonny

 

[PpPete]

I did our JoGLE route last year on bikehike, but it's incredibly time consuming and your parameters are rather different... I was given our overnight accomodation locations and had to find route avoiding A roads as far as humanly possibly because of the young age of the participants.... as a result our route was 1003 miles instead of the more usual 900 or so.
OTH bikehike is useful for printing "road atlas" type pages (or even "landranger" scale) on A4 with the route highlighted.

I've not used Google maps much - Abs' solution sounds like it might be a good un.

PM me if you need any help.

 

[4F]

You could also use www.viamichelin.co.uk and select the cycle option

 

[Flying Dodo]

I tend to use bikehike as the primary option, with the elevation showing as Abs stated, but in a second window, look at some of the sections in Google Streetview, to double check turns onto minor roads, to see if they really are public roads, not private, and also to spot for anything nasty.

Then if I find the elevation on bikehike shows it's suddenly going up a vicious hill, I'll undo the last few entries, try another road, and cross check on Google.

 

[dellzeqq]

For all the wonders of google maps and the rest, you can't do it properly without OS maps - and these are best accessed from Streetmap http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ . The reason is that google maps (and all it's derivatives) doesn't show gradients and is littered with mistakes. Not only does it show roads that are not there, it also ignores choices that are perfectly respectable..

I'd suggest feeding the beginning and end in to Google maps, then hitting the 'walk' button. You might then have to move it around to avoid 'A' roads. Having done that you need to check the entire thing out on Streetmap, which will tell you about gradients, and more pertinently, be accurate. On the other hand.....if you have the time you could go along to your local library and get all the 1 to 50,000 maps, and lay them out on the table.

Having said that........the way I used to do it is this.... buy a cheap Collins road atlas (last years is usually available for £2.99 somewhere or other). Mark up the route, and simply cut out the relevant pages and fold them up, stick them in a sandwich bag and put them in your jersey pocket. It's not perfect, because sometimes the signposting doesn't match up with the map, and you do need to check it over on the 1:50,000 maps, but, then again, you do have the thing with you, and you can see where you are.

*actually a long time ago, when I had no money, I used to borrow the road atlas, reduce the entire route to a code, and write it on perhaps a quarter sheet of A4. This got me to John O'Groats..

 

[JonnyBlade]

Very many thanks to all for all the help. Definitely got plenty to get my teeth into now

 

[gbs]

deleted, see below

 

[gbs]

All the above is good advice, IMO, to which I add the cautionary note that not all back roads shown on Google maps are tarmac roads. Some are farm lanes/cart tracks which is fine if you have the the right tyres but, whatever you have, dirt lanes will have an adverse impact on yr average mph and that is relevant to yr plan for 11 hrs/day. Bon voyage!

 

[deckertim]

OTH bikehike is useful for printing "road atlas" type pages (or even "landranger" scale) on A4 with the route highlighted.

I used bikehike yesterday just for that, showed part of the route on a large screen. Then did a screen print. Cut an paste into powerpoint, move the screen around and repeat. I was able to build up a map for my whole route that I could print out in colour on A3. Quite useful to have in my back pocket as a reserve.

 

[ColinJ]

For all the wonders of google maps and the rest, you can't do it properly without OS maps - and these are best accessed from Streetmap http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ . The reason is that google maps (and all it's derivatives) doesn't show gradients and is littered with mistakes. Not only does it show roads that are not there, it also ignores choices that are perfectly respectable..

All the above is good advice, IMO, to which I add the cautionary note that not all back roads shown on Google maps are tarmac roads. Some are farm lanes/cart tracks which is fine if you have the the right tyres but, whatever you have, dirt lanes will have an adverse impact on yr average mph and that is relevant to yr plan for 11 hrs/day. Bon voyage!

Definitely double-check your routes against an OS map! If you can afford it - buy the entire UK as one huuuuuuuuuge Landranger 1:50,000 map for your computer. I have the UK (minus Northern Ireland) edition of Memory Map and it was one of the best buys I ever made. It cost me about £160 at the time. I can plot rides of any length without having to worry about crossing over from one map to another. I then export them to Bikely or my GPS.

Two local examples of why you need to check against an OS map (and also why you can't trust SatNavs - they regularly direct drivers up and down these bridleways and the daft buggers blindly obey).

Google Maps - Hudson Mill Road

The actual Hudson Mill 'Road'


Google Maps - London Road

The actual London 'Road'

 

[deckertim]

For all the wonders of google maps and the rest, you can't do it properly without OS maps - and these are best accessed from Streetmap http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ . The reason is that google maps (and all it's derivatives) doesn't show gradients and is littered with mistakes. Not only does it show roads that are not there, it also ignores choices that are perfectly respectable..

Just discovered that you can do the equivalent of google route planning on an OS map. Just go to microsoft's Bing.com/maps You can select OS maps and do a route plan. You can then drag the points to select better options. If you zoom in you can even use 1:25k maps, so really good.

What I would like to do is then export this into bikeroutetoaster or bikehike so a GPX can be produced. Any ideas how to do this would be gratefully received.

 

[400bhp]

Folks were likely asleep or heading to work during the time of your first two posts.

When I'm creating routes I tend to start by using google maps and working up it's suggested route from the start pulling it onto B and back roads. After which I hit street view to check out the route and the more complex junctions. After that I export it and bring it into the likes of bike route toaster or ridewithgps for an elevation plan. The reason I start with Google is their navigation system for road users is less likely to take you the wrong way up a road which I find ridewithgps does and bikeroutetoaster isn't very nice for modifying a route once it's created.

All in all it's a hell of a lot of work but so far has led to good results and happy people on my rides.

Abs

I do something similar.

You don't need to go as far as Colin suggests as broadly speaking if it isn't in Google street view then it may be impassible and you'll need to do some more digging. Use the Sustrans website/google searches/Panoramio/bikely (search function) and the cycle/street option in bikeroutetoaster.

For example, in Colin's Hudson Hill Road example, Google streetview reveals the road is inaccesible for cars-here

It seems to work for me