State of the Planet

Discussion in 'News and Current Affairs' started by Reiver, 1 Jan 2019.

  1. mudsticks

    mudsticks Über Member

    One of my pet peeves
    (and i have many)

    With the environmental concern refuseniks.

    Is that for years they were telling us :-

    "Oh there's nothing to worry about, you tree hugging eco freaks, are all just making a big ol fuss about nothing"

    And now the very same people are saying

    "Oh well it's all too late now, the damage is done, why bother even trying??"

    Was I asleep during that five minutes interface between the two positions???
     
  2. Diogenes

    Diogenes Opinions, schminions

    Have to say that the recent coverage of plastics in the environment and needless pollution has done more to make me consider my own actions than any amount of graphs, data and scientific papers. Watching a turtle strangle itself on a plastic beer can holder makes me sick.

    More coverage like this please, less of the "Carbon particulates up 3 ppm in industrialised areas on days of the month with a W in them"
     
    Mugshot and k_green like this.
  3. Flying_Monkey

    Flying_Monkey Toll Collector on the Road to Nowhere

    See the post above yours.

    People have been trying to tell and show everyone this for years. This is what's going to happen. We've got to stop. We've got to do things differently.

    The response: 'Everything looks fine. Where's the evidence?'

    We provide the evidence. Lots of it. Undeniable evidence. For years.

    The response: 'Evidence is boring.'

    We continue campaigning. Things are so much worse now, we've got all kinds of horrible things you can see.

    The response is: 'Wow, now I can see why this is so bad, why didn't you show me this before?'

    We try not to bang our heads against the nearest solid object...
     
    mudsticks likes this.
  4. Diogenes

    Diogenes Opinions, schminions

    I don't recognise that narrative personally. I've never been a climate change sceptic, it's just been difficult to link graphs and studies on large scale effects to my daily existence. Seeing data satisfies the intellectual responses but not the emotional ones. Seeing a turtle strangling on what could be my plastic beer can holder hits home far better.

    But that's just a personal thing, what works for me. If on a larger scale the dry data approach is more effective at changing individual's behaviour then go for it.
     
  5. mudsticks

    mudsticks Über Member

    Fair enough.. Not having a go at you personally, but people have been trying to illustrate these problems with relatable 'stories' for years.

    (Remember Jacques Cousteau?)

    Via all kinds of media channels, on all sorts of platforms, to a very temporary response, then next day..

    Let's move on, cos some 'celebrity' has had a sprog, or whatever..

    The BBC has defended its watered down, fluffy, 'everything is fine' business as usual approach over the years, cos it didn't want to be accused of doom mongering.
    Or risked 'turning people off'

    Hah!

    If conservationists engage in activism, and blockades, shout about these issues, and show images, of and tell stories of dying eco systems, then they are accused of being 'over dramatic'

    If people like me, actively go and protest in the streets, or in the trees, we are a nuisance, an unwashed know-nothing rent-a-rabble' who need putting in our place...

    If we present hard scientific data, and peer reviewed evidence??

    "Oh were tired of experts, no one understands all these dry old figures.."

    I'm really struggling to see what other avenues we could have persued...
     
    Diogenes likes this.
  6. Rusty Nails

    Rusty Nails We remember

    Location:
    Here and there
    maxresdefault.jpg
     
  7. Yellow Fang

    Yellow Fang Guru

    Location:
    Reading
    In 2007 I was told the end date to avoid climate change was 2015. I just can't see it stopped without resorting to geoengineering. The economic and political resistance is too strong. The only other way if some new, clean, abundant and cheap method of electricity generation is perfected, that would make fossil fuel uneconomic. Maybe they will get nuclear fusion working, but even if they do, it might not be cheap.
     
  8. Flying_Monkey

    Flying_Monkey Toll Collector on the Road to Nowhere

    It's probably true. What's really frustrating is that we never should have got here. Governments and corporations knew the situation in the 1980s. We could have had a much less costly transition to a different energy economy if we'd started in earnest then. Everything now is going to be more drastic and more expensive the longer we leave it.
     
    mudsticks likes this.
  9. mudsticks

    mudsticks Über Member

    Yes in my book, the oil companies, and all the big corps, and governments who knew all this, and suppressed the evidence are the arch criminals in all this.

    Yes we should all have been paying more attention as individuals.

    Some of us were trying really quite hard..
    On many fronts.

    But mainly just got accused of being trying, for our pains.

    And you can't spend your whole life, and all your money fighting what feels like a losing battle, fought uphill.

    Life also has to be lived, albeit in a somewhat greener fashion than most..
    But still it's not easy being a low carbon consumer, in a world that makes it very difficult to take alternative routes.

    It wouldn't do much good, I know but charging all those fat cat oil bosses, and their ilk with eco-cide would have a ring of justice to it.
     
    Pat "5mph" and Flying_Monkey like this.
  10. Flying_Monkey

    Flying_Monkey Toll Collector on the Road to Nowhere

    Yes. But now at least there is a new generation of angry young people who are revitalizing everything. I'm still hopeful, but I'm just realistic enough to know that's it's going to hurt more than it would have done. But there's no alternative if we want to live.
     
    mudsticks likes this.
  11. SpokeyDokey

    SpokeyDokey Nearly 63 - oh dear! Moderator

  12. Edwardoka

    Edwardoka Facetious Waffler

    Salting the clouds sounds like something Rome would do to Carthage... what happens when those clouds precipitate salt water everywhere? Though increasing the surface albedo would reduce insolation, water vapour is also a potent greenhouse gas.

    I can see absolutely no side effects from deliberately creating algal blooms. Apart from the ecological disaster, mind you.

    Carbon capture and storage would be the correct solution - if only there was a form of life that acted as a carbon sink. I can't think of any natural process for sequestering carbon, though, much less one that captures carbon and turns it into fuel. I guess we'll have to cut down the rainforest to build these massive carbon-capturing power plants.

    If these are the best ideas we have, we're more screwed than I thought.

    Edit: that's not an attack on you, @SpokeyDokey, just that if the top geoengineering minds are coming up with "let's salt the earth, reinvent trees and cover the oceans in algae" we're in a pretty poor place.
     
  13. stowie

    stowie Guru

    It is worth exploring every option. But the danger is that, when we hear that "the boffins" are working on a plan to counter climate change we collectively heave a sigh of relief and don't bother thinking about it any further.

    Geo engineering sounds difficult and fraught with unintended consequences. Tinkering around with vastly complicated and interconnected systems sounds a bit... brave...

    I do equate equate action with pollution and climate change with dieting. Bear with me here... The actual most effective strategies are really conceptually simple but generally deeply unpalatable for people as they involve a lot of change. So our inventive minds come up with a whole bunch of enormously complicated strategies which are probably utterly ineffective but make people feel they are doing something.
     
  14. k_green

    k_green Well-Known Member

    What got us here is tinkering with nature far beyond what we really understood and on a far grander scale than ever before. I fear this is more of the same. I think the solution has to be in getting closer to nature and understanding and working with natural systems more closely.
     
    mudsticks likes this.
  15. mudsticks

    mudsticks Über Member

    And us angry older people are still backing them up .

    Hence women in red dresses putting themselves at risk of throttling by privileged white men at their self congratulatory dinner parties.

    The oil companies have known about the threat of climate change for decades.

    They even did research themselves that exposed the threat - then spent years covering it up.
    Whilst rubbishing the findings of independent climate scientists.

    Although a reasonably well educated child of nine could tell you there would likely be dire consequences to digging up and then burning all those fossil fuels.

    The capitalists who profit from all this are equally complicit in this eco-cide.
     
    Edwardoka likes this.
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