Surprised by Germans reluctance to be vaccinated

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
I don't think anyone's suggesting that the EU have done badly in the round, are they? And overall the UK have certainly not done well this last year. Each have had successes and failures, some of their own making, some just 'events, dear boy, events' (with the latter seized on with 20/20 hindsight and the former hailed by some and diminished by others).
"cases of cognitive dissonance on a national or 'union of nations' scale..." perhaps?
I think you have got the spirit, for want of a better word, of what I was getting at above.

For all the success earlier on, satisfaction in the way the federal govt here are currently handling the pandemic has taken a massive hit. This is mostly to do with the faltering start to the vaccination programme, but also complacency in getting things like comprehensive testing going. Not everyone has received the promised financial aid due in November. A task force has been formed to deal with comprehensive tests - the quick tests and DIY versions, yet the latter are due to be available in Aldi as of Monday! These have been available since last October. Why can't the govt get on with it? They are even tentatively opening up schools, but without the full amount of testing capacity necessary to ensure this is as safe as possible.

Some Länder, fortunately, have got on with it and seized the initiative. A better app is in the offing, due to private initiative.

The conservative part of the current govt may yet find itself punished in the election due on 26th September.

At least the SPD candidate for Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, is already making himself a pain in the neck to ensure that as the supply of vaccines massively increases there will not be situation of the supply being greater than the capacity to inject it. With the British variant getting to be in the ascendant and the demand for the lockdown to be run down for economic reasons, there is no time to lose in getting as many vaccinated as quickly as possible.
 
This works in both ways. Brexit polarises and contaminates all discussion.
I'm sure it does in the UK. In Europe it's yesterdays news. The positive results from the UK's vaccination have been noted but it's not seen as a "them and us" issue.
 
Last edited:
With the British variant getting to be in the ascendant and the demand for the lockdown to be run down for economic reasons, there is no time to lose in getting as many vaccinated as quickly as possible.
I'm currently in limbo waiting for a two day placement in my hopefully new workplace, because they can't restart the programme I'm to work on until lockdown is reduced slightly.

The conservative part of the current govt may yet find itself punished in the election due on 26th September.
Reminds me, I need to send off my postal vote...
 
"cases of cognitive dissonance on a national or 'union of nations' scale..." perhaps?
Pedant warning:

Cognitive dissonance only affects someone who has made a decision, and has been confronted with evidence that it may not have been the correct option to choose. In the context of Brexit it would not affect the EU because it was the UK's decision to leave.

Okay, as you were...
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
Pedant warning:

Cognitive dissonance only affects someone who has made a decision, and has been confronted with evidence that it may not have been the correct option to choose. In the context of Brexit it would not affect the EU because it was the UK's decision to leave.

Okay, as you were...
Further pedantry....

Decision making is one possible source of cognitive dissonance, but there are others:

What causes cognitive dissonance?

Forced Compliance Behavior,
Decision Making
Effort.


https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html#:~:text=Cognitive dissonance refers to a,the discomfort and restore balance.

Edit: in fact Stockholm Syndrome is an extreme example of CD
 
Last edited:

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Reminds me, I need to send off my postal vote...
Oh no, another election is going to be stolen ... ^_^

Looking at how the different parties are acting with regard to corona, it's immensely difficult to know who to vote for. Is your new job still in Lahr or have managed to get back nearer Stuttgart, if you don't mind me asking.

Anyway keeping vaguely on topic, I have just noted the total vaccination number here up to yesterday is 7,300,000 with a gradual increase in the rate. I think the disquiet over how this was handled at the beginning refutes the notion that large numbers of Germans are against being vaccinated.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Cognitive dissonance only affects someone who has made a decision, and has been confronted with evidence that it may not have been the correct option to choose. In the context of Brexit it would not affect the EU because it was the UK's decision to leave.
Thank you for your first mention of 'cognitive dissonance' which 'forced me' to go and read up a tad, before posting the 'union of nations' suggestion.
For the EU 'decision' I had in mind the general 9 month debacle on procurement and administration of (or leaving on shelf) vaccines various for their 'cognitive dissonance' experience. Brexit obscures the issue (with elephant poo) on this topic.
 
Oh no, another election is going to be stolen ... ^_^
Mwahahahaaaa...

Is your new job still in Lahr or have managed to get back nearer Stuttgart, if you don't mind me asking.
Herbolzheim, if it all works out, a town whose main claim to fame (at least as viewed from the railway station) is that it contains the "Atlantis Rock Club" and the storage depot for the "Europa Park" a sort of localised Disneyland. The organisation looks good though.

There's next to nothing at the moment in Stuttgart and most of those are impossible to get to without a car. I expect this to change rapidly as lockdown is reduced though, and the psychological crisis hidden by the focus on C-19 becomes clear.

Anyway keeping vaguely on topic, I have just noted the total vaccination number here up to yesterday is 7,300,000 with a gradual increase in the rate. I think the disquiet over how this was handled at the beginning refutes the notion that large numbers of Germans are against being vaccinated.
It does seem to contradict that notion, yes. We had to individually notify all our clients that they could get an attest that they work in a workshop for people with disabilities which meant they could get an early vaccination.

Bearing in mind people with psychological issues can be easily swayed by conspiracy theories we were expecting most to say no, but of the fifty only one refused and two wanted to think about it over the weekend: all the rest want to be vaccinated, and don't much who made the vaccine either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: C R

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Herbolzheim
I know it well - well at least the McDonald's there, which is a good stopping place for various trips in the Freiburg direction.

I reckon btw you are likely to get your injection long before I do, but at least the authorities haven't made promises of dates that they may not be able to keep to. Something will have had to go seriously wrong if I can't get it before my August cycling holiday in Elsass and I would be reluctant to go without it, assuming it can still take place.
 
I'm sure it does in the UK. In Europe it's yesterdays news. The positive results from the UK's vaccination have been noted but it's not seen as a "them and us" issue.
I was talking about polarisation and contamination of views only within the UK. I really wish it was yesterday's news here.
I don't think the vaccination programmes in other countries are a 'them and us' situation either in the UK, we've just got on with ours.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
In the summer Germany saw the wider benefits of demonstrable continental 'unity of action' outweigh possible disadvantages of vaccine procurement 'unity of inaction'.
As at 5 Mar, Germany had received 1.4M doses of Ox-AZ of which about a third have so far been administered. No rush. It seems to me this is clear evidence that Germany is not 'competitive' wrt vaccinating their population.
 

alpine fenlander

Über Member
Actually, I think that's a bit of a cultural difference. In Britain atm as soon as you critise the goverment you're branded a left-wing marxist unpatriotic traitor, because Britain is the greatest country on earth. Bit like the US I guess, except they actually are the best at most things.

In Germany it's more of a case of let's have a look why others are doing something better so we can improve, e.g. I remember articles and discussions about why Vietnam had better control of the virus - how can we learn from that, why does South Korea have better test and trace - what processes can we copy from them, and now of course why does Britain vacccinate sooner and faster - what have we done wrong and how do we do it better.

It's not so much of 'we think we're better than everyone else' but more of a 'we want to do the best we possibly can'. A generalisation of course, you get your nationalistic neo-nazis in all countries, but I think that's the majority cultural attitude.

Would be interesting to know @Andy in Germany and @Unkraut views from the opposite direction or if that is only my view?!

As for vaccinations I think by the end of the year Germany and the rest of the EU will be in the top 3rd of countries, simply because they are rich countries who can afford the vaccines and manage the rollout. A few weeks or months here or there won't make much of a difference, especially if the rich countries don't get together soon to help the poorer countries before the next winter wave comes around and we'll all have to start over with the next variants. We truly are all in this together...

Why Germans are more anti-vax, that's a bit of a mystery to me as well I have to say. Like someone mentioned alternative treatments are more accepted, but for most people it would be more of an extra avenue of treating a disease in addition to tradional medicine. My two sisters don't want to get vaccinated, one is definitively the alternative medicine type, the other probably for (evangelical) Christian reasons and my mom wants to wait a few months because she often gets allergic reactions (and no doubt my sisters are talking to her). Hard to watch and influence from a far, but my mom is coming around as I point out that it all works very well in the UK - so I'm very grateful that I do live in country that is setting a positive example!
 
Top Bottom