Surprised by Germans reluctance to be vaccinated

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
From the country that brought us Louis Pasteur.
Indeed.:wacko:
I've wondered whether the persistent resistance to "collaborateurs" reinforces a kind of willful non-cooperation here. The article doesn't speak of that, though, but perhaps it speaks within that.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
I'm still pro eurp but the vaccine rollout for the EU has truly been a facepalm worthy event. They will be encouraging 30 year olds to get their vaccinations in blight before many EU states get round to their 55/60 year olds.
It would appear AZ received initial orders for their vaccine before von der Leyen took over from the consortium! Also seems she was useless at contracts when defence minister. She's got form!

You are not though comparing like with like. I would love to know what the supply situation would have been like but for the delays. This would indicate just how much failure von der Leyen made and enable some idea of the cost in serious illness and death. (She deserves to be done for manslaughter.)

Whatever the figure might be, I cannot imagine the EU could possibly have vaccinated a third of the population, that would be 150 million people including in countries with much less infrastructure do this than western European countries. The current figure for EU and EEA is over 38 million as of yesterday. If prompt ordering had occurred production capacity would have been better, but that much better? A better comparison would be with the USA, the EU still comes off worse, but even having got on with it like the UK a country that size cannot produce enough quickly enough.

Comboxes in the German press are overwhelmingly scathing of vdL, one I read today said 'she has done more damage to the EU than Nigel Farage in his whole life'. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but she has shown what the EU is no good at and what the nation state or small groups of nation states are/can be better at. The EU is good at trade deals when there is plenty of time, but in a pandemic when time is of the essence, it has shown itself to be too cumbersome and bureaucratic. Amateurs against professionals.

Providing there is no disruption to the increasing levels of supply, the EU should be able to vaccinate 70% required for herd immunity by about the end of July (S & P forecast).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: C R
OP
Arrowfoot

Arrowfoot

Guru
Actually, I think that's a bit of a cultural difference. In Britain atm as soon as you critise the goverment you're branded a left-wing marxist unpatriotic traitor, because Britain is the greatest country on earth. Bit like the US I guess, except they actually are the best at most things.

In Germany it's more of a case of let's have a look why others are doing something better so we can improve, e.g. I remember articles and discussions about why Vietnam had better control of the virus - how can we learn from that, why does South Korea have better test and trace - what processes can we copy from them, and now of course why does Britain vacccinate sooner and faster - what have we done wrong and how do we do it better.
I was in an industry rule setting committee with international reps. The German reps would be the last ones to agree and only after t's are crossed and i's dotted. Dogmatic and methodical. We initially thought it was just that individual but over the years, his successors were the same. They kept us on the straight and narrow.

The same approach also prevented them from suggesting solutions of the cuff. They remained quiet thru out the problem solving stage but when something substantial was crafted, they would provide helpful advice and suggestions on the end product. Very cautious.

Unfortunately in an international setting and to accommodate all parties and to reach consensus, problem solving took up 90% of the time. The Japanese who required translators in attendance were ready with various solution. Certainly broke the stereotype that Asians are meek and docile.

It did help to explain their high engineering prowess but their quiet on innovation.
 
As of 11.03.2021

Johns Hopkins University puts the total number of people vaccinated (ie, with both vaccinations) in Germany as 3.23%

According to the Robert Koch Institute, Germany's public health institution, the state of Baden-Württemberg (Where @Unkraut and I live) is currently at 6.9% for first vaccinations and 3.1% for second vaccinations.

I mentioned upthread that in the organisation I work for, for people with Psychological disabilities, of about fifty clients, only three refused the papers to get an early vaccination. Slightly worrying is that one was the patients mother, but as she has full power of attorney there wasn't a lot we could do.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Reviving this thread! I read that Germany have broken yesterday's record of 780,858 in a day by vaccinating over a million individuals in one day (1,088,952). Eclipses the UK's top day (20 March) of 844 thousand.
Daily rates have massively improved since GPs / local surgeries were included in the delivery pathways, and supplies have been better.
 
Last edited:

Drago

Flouncing Nobber
Location
Poshshire
Who cares? If something goes well in Germany then Merkel will take the credit. If something goes wrong, its the fault of the British.

We spent 7 decades keeping our own military there, not just to keep the reds at bay but to keep the boot firmly on Germany's neck, and they were always resentful about it. Any excuse to blame the British has always been pounced upon with glee. Von Der Leyen, a woman with a reputation for incompetence, is simply the latest manifestation of that - if people are finally getting the jab over there its depsite their own Government and the EU, not because of them.

Screw 'em, they got the leadership they voted for and which their national psyche deserves.
 
Well, if that represents the British "national psyche", I think I'd prefer the German one.

FWIW, German vaccination rates are roughly the same as the UK at the moment (plot shows 7 day average per 100 population).

View attachment 586457
Incidentally, the large peak in UK vaccinations was enabled by vaccine supply from... ...India.

Much as I'm grateful for my vaccination, which was during that period, it does make me reflect on just how much pride we should be taking in it.
 

shep

Veteran
Location
Wolverhampton
Much as I'm grateful for my vaccination, which was during that period, it does make me reflect on just how much pride we should be taking in it.
Have you got anything positive to say about being English (I assume) or the country in general?

It makes me wonder why people so negative about the place they live don't just pack up and leave?
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
From https://www.airfinity.com/
1619768917780.png

I would like to think that India would have supplied itself and its neighbours. But the research and IP was created in Oxford and I guess part of the agreement to allow manufacture in SII Puna was a supply by end Q1 to the UK, at best reasonable efforts.
 
From https://www.airfinity.com/
View attachment 586458
I would like to think that India would have supplied itself and its neighbours. But the research and IP was created in Oxford and I guess part of the agreement to allow manufacture in SII Puna was a supply by end Q1 to the UK, at best reasonable efforts.
I don't think those figures are credible.

UK production has gone exclusively to the UK, and we've imported probably about the same again.

Total UK doses 40 million.

EU supply has been almost exclusively from within the EU (except for Moderna?). And they've exported extensively.

Total EU doses 120 million.

EU vaccine production appears about 10x higher than UK.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Have you got anything positive to say about being English (I assume) or the country in general?
English people are generally fair, friendly and polite.

It makes me wonder why people so negative about the place they live don't just pack up and leave?
Maybe shouldn't have stripped them against their will of the citizenship that enabled them to leave, hein? But the Post-Brexit thread is https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-post-brexit-thread.251777/
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I don't think those figures are credible.

UK production has gone exclusively to the UK, and we've imported probably about the same again.

Total UK doses 40 million.

EU supply has been almost exclusively from within the EU (except for Moderna?). And they've exported extensively.

Total EU doses 120 million.

EU vaccine production appears about 10x higher than UK.
I think most of Pfizer vaccine has final manufacturing in Belgium, while Janssen is made in Spain and France. The figure for Germany alone may be accurate but misleading.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
I read that Germany have broken yesterday's record of 780,858 in a day by vaccinating over a million individuals in one day (1,088,952).
I noticed this late last night. There has been talk of this, but quite frankly I thought I'll believe it when I see it. The slowish start to the campaign might have had one advantage in that it enabled the infrastructure to be set up and work effectively. There have been bureaucratic and logistical problems, but these now seem to have been dealt with. Thoroughness has been the enemy of flexibility and speed.

Depending on supply, it might yet be possible to do even better when company doctors are included in the campaign in addition to centres and GP's.
If something goes well in Germany then Merkel will take the credit. If something goes wrong, its the fault of the British

Screw 'em, they got the leadership they voted for and which their national psyche deserves.
That's a bit harsh. I think Merkel deserves more credit for pushing for harder measures to curtail the spread of the virus than all 16 minister-presidents put together. She has consistently got it right, but the country's federal structure has hindered her from being able to direct the overall policy, and federal law only trumped regional law from last Saturday.

The slow start to the vaccination might yet cost the conservatives the election in September. Some of the problems that have come to light in dealing with the pandemic are down to underfunding the public sector over Merkel's chancellorship.

I haven't seen one instance of the British being blamed for anything during the pandemic. Von der Leyen rightly deserved criticism for the procurement delays, that was an EU problem that perhaps Merkel should have kept more of an eye on, although these initial supply problems appear to have been solved in the meantime.

We should never forget that much of the rest of the world is still waiting for vaccine supplies.
 
Top Bottom