The Brexit Thread

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
And this, too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49970197

UK farmers also now realising that Brexit isn't such a great idea... And the haulage industry.

Oops.
And the continuing attempts by a tiny minority to force Britain off the no-deal cliff-edge continues to harm the economy in general: https://www.rec.uk.com/news-and-policy/press-releases/employers-scale-back-hiring-plans-in-september-as-brexit-deadline-looms
James Stewart, Vice Chair at KPMG, said:

“The Brexit impasse continues to affect the jobs market with employers stuck, unable to make informed decisions, and people unwilling to risk seeking new roles.

“Given that it’s the weakest increase in job vacancies since 2012 and the longest period that permanent staff appointments have fallen since the global financial crisis, it would seem that it’s proving difficult for businesses to shake off the heightened uncertainty and unknowns. So with the deadline fast approaching, they may well be waiting to get clarity on the future direction of Brexit before making any key decisions on hiring and investment.”
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
Of course how could there be a Labour deal or a PV without a GE first.
A Government of National Unity, which may or may not be led by Corbyn, can instigate a PV followed by a GE. It is our best chance for stopping the Tory Brexit, not a GE, given Labour's unpopularity at polls.

I wouldn't endorse a Tory goverment under any circumstances !
Which I totally understand and respect (I wouldn't endorse a Tory government currently either, under any circumstance :cheers:).

I presume you would vote LibDem if that is the only way to stop a local Tory?

Does your sentiment regarding the Tory help you understand why Tory MPs, ejected or not by Johnson, would not vote to put Corbyn in No.10? Your answer to this question is important for the issue below.

Good article in FT
https://amp.ft.com/content/21f8dd54-e8f8-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55?__twitter_impression=true
Lib Dems don't want to back Corbyn as interim PM....what a surprise.They can't go after Labour/Corbyn on their policies because they haven't much.So they'll keep banging on about anyone but Corbyn as he's what ? Dangerous lol.
They know if it comes to a election it's either another coalition with the Tories or nothing !
22XYcjS.png


The point is that Corbyn can't be interim PM because of the Tory rebels, it is further explained here and here. What stops Corbyn as PM, is not the LibDem - even if the LibDem gave Corbyn full support, Corbyn still hasn't got the numbers.

Wouldn't it be good if Corbyn would, as a mature statesman, accept the reality, and do what is right, by letting someone less divisive be the interim PM. After all, what matters for the GNU, is not who is leader, but what its remits are.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I am hopefull the queen will find another way to remove Boris, even if it is accidentally :laugh:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boris-johnson-to-tell-queen-20541211.amp
"The Lascelles principles were drawn up by Sir Alan Frederick Lascelles, the first Private Secretary to the Queen, in 1950."
Now, my history is a bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure that the Queen wasn't the Queen in 1950, so it's difficult to be sure that QEII would follow the same rules as King George VI.

More recently and more importantly, royal prerogative power over dissolution of Parliament was removed by the section 3(2) of Fixed-term Parliaments Act, rendering the Lascelles principles mostly irrelevant. If Parliament removes Boris and doesn't agree on a new PM within 14 days, the general election process starts, no matter what the Queen wants - Parliament is sovereign, right? http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
There's the difference between you and me...I wouldn't endorse a Tory goverment under any circumstances !
You actually think we were doing ok before the whole brexit shitshow ? Nah not for me.Austerity was killing people before all this and will continue to under them.
No, we were doing badly and we totally agree about Austerity.
BUT, apart from the political will (which I accept Labour has in spades over the Tories), you need a strong economy to fund better social care blah blah. Unfortunately, Brexit will not yield this in the short-term (and maybe for quite a while) and shedloads more public money will be wasted trying to stave-off the downsides of Brexit when it happens. So I don't believe Austerity will be ending anytime soon in any Brexit scenario, in fact quite the opposite, it will only put more people out of work and onto the breadline and more despair.
In addition, Corbyn is unlikely to win an early election, so it's a moot point. Stopping Brexit (or at the very least a hard-Brexit) has to remain the priority which will ultimately hasten the end of Austerity.
 
Maybe not, but some of their friends/followers might, especially the ones who think that the sharer-nobbers are well educated and well employed and far above rabble-rousing garbage. I just reply short and sweet (and take care to reply to the share and not the original where you will be lost in the rabble-rousing noise) and leave it there, otherwise the nobbers get free run of faceberk and that seems to be enough to tilt the playing field.

"Bad people need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good people should look on and do nothing." (John Stuart Mill, updated to modern language).
I should have been more specific really... :blush:

You see, I judge at cat shows, and the people in question, and their friends, are exhibitors - I can't give them any reason to say that I'm biased against them, yadda, yadda, yadda, if I don't place their cats terribly highly. Cat Fancy politics can make Brexit politics seem really tame at times... :unsure:
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.

View: https://twitter.com/rhodri/status/1181849756043300864?s=20

You can listen to the whole thing here if you like, chase away those winter blues while you're on the turbo :okay:

https://article54.bandcamp.com/releases
 
So I don't believe Austerity will be ending anytime soon in any Brexit scenario, in fact quite the opposite, it will only put more people out of work and onto the breadline and more despair.
^^^ this in spades.

Those of you who know me well know that I'm an inveterate yellow stickerer - although for me, it's very much of a lifestyle choice, and has been for many years. I've found that the YS cabinets are as good a litmus test of people's spending power as any fancypants analysis. Since 2016, and especially since about mid 2017, I've noticed a distinct step-change in the dynamics of yellow stickering.

When the economy is doing well and people have a lot of disposable cash, it tends to be only the regulars who take stickered stuff, while your average joe walks on by, often looking down (and making snide comments) about those of us hanging around for final reductions. There used to be a lot going into finals. During the week, a typical quantity for my most-frequented shop would be four crates of chilled, half a dozen crates of fruit & veg, maybe eight trays of sliced bread and pre-packaged cakes, plus stuff from the counters and the ISB. On a Sunday, there could sometimes be half as much again. Also, final reductions used to mark down by around 90 to 95%

After the drop in the value of the pound in 2016, things have become very different. A lot of stickered food is being bought much earlier in the reductions process. In the mornings, the cabinets are rammed, but the balance of it doesn't even get as far as second reductions. By the time you get to final reductions, you might only have one, and if you're very, very lucky, two crates of chilled, a couple of crates of fruit & veg and perhaps one tray of bread and occasionally a cake. Most of the stuff off the counters and ISB is gone by then, with one or two exceptions. There are still bargains to be had, especially if you're open minded, but most reductions don't go any lower than 75% unless they're absolutely desperate to shift a job lot of stuff.

In one shop I sometimes visit in an area with a lot of folks living on low income, there are far more people hanging around for finals than there used to be, and at times it can get very fraught.

Also, post-2016, the makeup of the contents of the crates has changed.

For chilled, you used to get a really good variety of everything across all price points. Now fresh meat is a real rarity, fish is still more common, but pickings are slim. Cream cakes and desserts are a rarity as well. Most of it now is sandwiches and the really expensive ready meals, and for some odd reason, loads of eggs...

Fruit and veg is now predominantly prepared / pre-chopped stuff and bagged salads plus whatever promotional produce that hasn't sold. OK, supermarkets have changed the date policies on some of their fresh produce in a bid to reduce waste, which has made a difference to what goes on sticker, but there's now very little fruit to be had on YS come the end of the day, if any at all.

What this tells me is that people are really feeling the pinch across the spectrum, and having to change their perception of YS food, taking it because they have to, rather than, like me, because they want to. Rather than buy stuff full price, there now seems to be a distinct preference to taking the same item on YS, even if it's only 20p or 50p off, as it's now 20p or 50p that they can then spend on something else. This is particularly true of meat, fruit and "treats" such as cakes.

I can't see this trend changing anytime soon...
 

Adam4868

Veteran
No, we were doing badly and we totally agree about Austerity.
BUT, apart from the political will (which I accept Labour has in spades over the Tories), you need a strong economy to fund better social care blah blah. Unfortunately, Brexit will not yield this in the short-term (and maybe for quite a while) and shedloads more public money will be wasted trying to stave-off the downsides of Brexit when it happens. So I don't believe Austerity will be ending anytime soon in any Brexit scenario, in fact quite the opposite, it will only put more people out of work and onto the breadline and more despair.
In addition, Corbyn is unlikely to win an early election, so it's a moot point. Stopping Brexit (or at the very least a hard-Brexit) has to remain the priority which will ultimately hasten the end of Austerity.
^^^ this in spades.

Those of you who know me well know that I'm an inveterate yellow stickerer - although for me, it's very much of a lifestyle choice, and has been for many years. I've found that the YS cabinets are as good a litmus test of people's spending power as any fancypants analysis. Since 2016, and especially since about mid 2017, I've noticed a distinct step-change in the dynamics of yellow stickering.

When the economy is doing well and people have a lot of disposable cash, it tends to be only the regulars who take stickered stuff, while your average joe walks on by, often looking down (and making snide comments) about those of us hanging around for final reductions. There used to be a lot going into finals. During the week, a typical quantity for my most-frequented shop would be four crates of chilled, half a dozen crates of fruit & veg, maybe eight trays of sliced bread and pre-packaged cakes, plus stuff from the counters and the ISB. On a Sunday, there could sometimes be half as much again. Also, final reductions used to mark down by around 90 to 95%

After the drop in the value of the pound in 2016, things have become very different. A lot of stickered food is being bought much earlier in the reductions process. In the mornings, the cabinets are rammed, but the balance of it doesn't even get as far as second reductions. By the time you get to final reductions, you might only have one, and if you're very, very lucky, two crates of chilled, a couple of crates of fruit & veg and perhaps one tray of bread and occasionally a cake. Most of the stuff off the counters and ISB is gone by then, with one or two exceptions. There are still bargains to be had, especially if you're open minded, but most reductions don't go any lower than 75% unless they're absolutely desperate to shift a job lot of stuff.

In one shop I sometimes visit in an area with a lot of folks living on low income, there are far more people hanging around for finals than there used to be, and at times it can get very fraught.

Also, post-2016, the makeup of the contents of the crates has changed.

For chilled, you used to get a really good variety of everything across all price points. Now fresh meat is a real rarity, fish is still more common, but pickings are slim. Cream cakes and desserts are a rarity as well. Most of it now is sandwiches and the really expensive ready meals, and for some odd reason, loads of eggs...

Fruit and veg is now predominantly prepared / pre-chopped stuff and bagged salads plus whatever promotional produce that hasn't sold. OK, supermarkets have changed the date policies on some of their fresh produce in a bid to reduce waste, which has made a difference to what goes on sticker, but there's now very little fruit to be had on YS come the end of the day, if any at all.

What this tells me is that people are really feeling the pinch across the spectrum, and having to change their perception of YS food, taking it because they have to, rather than, like me, because they want to. Rather than buy stuff full price, there now seems to be a distinct preference to taking the same item on YS, even if it's only 20p or 50p off, as it's now 20p or 50p that they can then spend on something else. This is particularly true of meat, fruit and "treats" such as cakes.

I can't see this trend changing anytime soon...
No disrespect to either of you,and you both make good points.Im sure we're in agreement on Brexit and it's a disaster waiting to happen.But getting back to the Tories and where we are and were before, we see things different,I see a country fecked for many allready.Brexit doesn't mean much to a lot,a think a lot of the leave voters were enticed by false promises.
The deaths of 726 homeless people in England and Wales recorded in 2018 represent an increase of over a fifth on the previous year. That’s the largest rise since these figures began in 2013
We should be ashamed of where we're at,that's without quoting any of the other shite this goverment has inflicted on us..
You get the picture.
 

raleighnut

Guru
Location
On 3 Wheels
^^^ this in spades.

Those of you who know me well know that I'm an inveterate yellow stickerer - although for me, it's very much of a lifestyle choice, and has been for many years. I've found that the YS cabinets are as good a litmus test of people's spending power as any fancypants analysis. Since 2016, and especially since about mid 2017, I've noticed a distinct step-change in the dynamics of yellow stickering.

When the economy is doing well and people have a lot of disposable cash, it tends to be only the regulars who take stickered stuff, while your average joe walks on by, often looking down (and making snide comments) about those of us hanging around for final reductions. There used to be a lot going into finals. During the week, a typical quantity for my most-frequented shop would be four crates of chilled, half a dozen crates of fruit & veg, maybe eight trays of sliced bread and pre-packaged cakes, plus stuff from the counters and the ISB. On a Sunday, there could sometimes be half as much again. Also, final reductions used to mark down by around 90 to 95%

After the drop in the value of the pound in 2016, things have become very different. A lot of stickered food is being bought much earlier in the reductions process. In the mornings, the cabinets are rammed, but the balance of it doesn't even get as far as second reductions. By the time you get to final reductions, you might only have one, and if you're very, very lucky, two crates of chilled, a couple of crates of fruit & veg and perhaps one tray of bread and occasionally a cake. Most of the stuff off the counters and ISB is gone by then, with one or two exceptions. There are still bargains to be had, especially if you're open minded, but most reductions don't go any lower than 75% unless they're absolutely desperate to shift a job lot of stuff.

In one shop I sometimes visit in an area with a lot of folks living on low income, there are far more people hanging around for finals than there used to be, and at times it can get very fraught.

Also, post-2016, the makeup of the contents of the crates has changed.

For chilled, you used to get a really good variety of everything across all price points. Now fresh meat is a real rarity, fish is still more common, but pickings are slim. Cream cakes and desserts are a rarity as well. Most of it now is sandwiches and the really expensive ready meals, and for some odd reason, loads of eggs...

Fruit and veg is now predominantly prepared / pre-chopped stuff and bagged salads plus whatever promotional produce that hasn't sold. OK, supermarkets have changed the date policies on some of their fresh produce in a bid to reduce waste, which has made a difference to what goes on sticker, but there's now very little fruit to be had on YS come the end of the day, if any at all.

What this tells me is that people are really feeling the pinch across the spectrum, and having to change their perception of YS food, taking it because they have to, rather than, like me, because they want to. Rather than buy stuff full price, there now seems to be a distinct preference to taking the same item on YS, even if it's only 20p or 50p off, as it's now 20p or 50p that they can then spend on something else. This is particularly true of meat, fruit and "treats" such as cakes.

I can't see this trend changing anytime soon...
As a part timer in the YS dept I've noticed similar but I think a lot of shops are managing their stocking levels more tightly, there certainly seems to be less in the shops to be reduced in the first place as opposed to the 'stack em high' policy of a couple of years ago.
 
No disrespect to either of you,and you both make good points.Im sure we're in agreement on Brexit and it's a disaster waiting to happen.But getting back to the Tories and where we are and were before, we see things different,I see a country fecked for many allready.
I don't think you can blame any one political party for that - better blame the adversarial nature of British politics with its "blame the other" attitude, where each time a government changes, it's a case of "we'll fix what you broke" and so on, ad infinitum.

Brexit doesn't mean much to a lot,a think a lot of the leave voters were enticed by false promises.
I'd say a fair proportion of leave votes were also a protest against the government - which is usually the case in ballots that aren't a general election - and that they may not have realised the consequence of voting the way that they did.
 
It's okay for me but just in case anyone has a problem viewing it via the embedded tweet, here it is in its inglourious basterdness:

View attachment 488297
It's getting to the point that I don't want to say I'm British on my CV. Not because I fear repercussions -people here are uniformly concerned about how it will affect us- but because I'm embarrassed.

And this, too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49970197

UK farmers also now realising that Brexit isn't such a great idea... And the haulage industry.

Oops.
This reminds me of the Nottinghamshire miners who dutifully supported the government in the 1984 strike against pit cliosures, and then had their pits closed soon after.

Lol your fecking right I've got a chip on my shoulder about them.With good reason.Austerity....remember.
There's the difference between you and me...I wouldn't endorse a Tory goverment under any circumstances !
You actually think we were doing ok before the whole brexit shitshow ? Nah not for me.Austerity was killing people before all this and will continue to under them.
I still wonder if that wasn't the goal of Austerity: Artificially create a crisis, then tell people to blame foreign people and immigrants, pretend that the EU 'forces' the UK to take unlimited numbers (Ssh, don't talk about the Schengen agreement), and then offer a 'solution' in the form of Brexit.

It wouldn't be the first time.

Now, I don't believe a word that the man says, but taking it at face value this would put them on a collision course with Farage voters.

Boris Johnson promises not to automatically back no-deal at next election
I suspect it's an attempt to keep more moderate Brexiters on his side. I wouldn't trust him either but he is of the opinion that Brexit supporters have memories like a goldfish and will forget about it all be tomorow afternoon as long as he says something outrageous about the EU in the meantime.
 
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