The cost of decorating a flat.

Rocky

sacré bleu
Do we honestly think our Tax would be any less under a different Party?

I have always thought the Tories like to keep taxes low?
Honestly is the word.

My point is not how much tax we pay, it's whether it is going to make an already rich man even richer.

What is emerging from the cases brought by the Good Law Project is that we should be very worried about how friends of this Government are skimming off our taxes through dodgy contracts.

I hate the idea that the money I've earned legitimately finds its way into the pocket of a tory donor who is literally stealing from the state. It may not worry you - but as I say, it worries me hugely.
 

shep

Veteran
Location
Wolverhampton
Honestly is the word.

My point is not how much tax we pay, it's whether it is going to make an already rich man even richer.

What is emerging from the cases brought by the Good Law Project is that we should be very worried about how friends of this Government are skimming off our taxes through dodgy contracts.

I hate the idea that the money I've earned legitimately finds its way into the pocket of a tory donor who is literally stealing from the state. It may not worry you - but as I say, it worries me hugely.
Fair enough, it doesn't bother me, no.

Probably because there's nothing anyone can do until election time and even then I doubt things will change but that's just me.

When Labour was in power I felt the same then if I heard of any dodgy dealings, they're all as bad in my view so no point in getting angry about it.
 
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Rocky

sacré bleu
Fair enough, it doesn't bother me, no.

Probably because there's nothing anyone can do until election time and even then I doubt things will change but that's just me.
Well actually there is plenty you could do - fund the Good Law Project in their work, for example.

I just wonder if someone mugged you on the way back from the pub and stole £250 from your pocket, whether you'd be as unconcerned. It is the same thing - except the person stealing your money in this case is a multimillionaire.
 

shep

Veteran
Location
Wolverhampton
Well actually there is plenty you could do - fund the Good Law Project in their work, for example.

I just wonder if someone mugged you on the way back from the pub and stole £250 from your pocket, whether you'd be as unconcerned. It is the same thing - except the person stealing your money in this case is a multimillionaire.
I think that would be different because I know how much tax I pay and what it's spent on is pretty much out of my control, the cash in my pocket however is mine and I look at that as belonging to me.

How rich other people are is of no concern to me either so can't see the relevance to be honest, unless envy plays a part in people's view?
 

Rocky

sacré bleu
I think that would be different because I know how much tax I pay and what it's spent on is pretty much out of my control, the cash in my pocket however is mine and I look at that as belonging to me.

How rich other people are is of no concern to me either so can't see the relevance to be honest, unless envy plays a part in people's view?
So you are not worried about corruption in government (because that is what you are saying) and you are happy for your taxes which could be funding the NHS and our nurses to go to dodgy businessmen instead. That's fine - you are entitled to do that.
 

shep

Veteran
Location
Wolverhampton
Obviously I would prefer the NHS to get it, my missus was a Nurse for over 30yrs, but do you genuinely think getting angry and spending any time mithering and moaning about it will alter things?

If you know a way then please share, I Googled Good Law Project but couldn't really see what they do?
 

Rocky

sacré bleu
Obviously I would prefer the NHS to get it, my missus was a Nurse for over 30yrs, but do you genuinely think getting angry and spending any time mithering and moaning about it will alter things?

If you know a way then please share, I Googled Good Law Project but couldn't really see what they do?
The Good Law Project holds government to account through the courts.

https://goodlawproject.org

They've recently won a case in the high court requiring Matt Hancock to reveal his WhatsApp list of suppliers who won Covid PPI contracts. This procurement was all clothed in secrecy and contracts may have been awarded not on the basis of price or quality but on political links.

https://goodlawproject.org/update/the-judgment-is-in/

There's a 'support' button on their home page. Donate a bob or two - that's how you could help.
 

shep

Veteran
Location
Wolverhampton
Thanks for that,

I'm still not really bothered about what goes on though as I would rather just get on with life and not worry about stuff so far removed from my life.

My train of thought goes something like this.....

Hear about some dodgy government dealings, think to myself , 'dodgy gits at it again ' oh well, whats for tea, pub tonight, football the weekend, going for a ride etc etc.

Think nothing more of it and get on with life.
 
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SkipdiverJohn

Veteran
Location
London
Loads of questionable shoot involving public money goes on irrespective of which party is in power. There was certainly no shortage of cronyism under Blair, and I don't like any of it irrespective of which party is in government, who the beneficiaries are, or how rich they might be. Cronyism is cronyism and there is no place for it in any branch of public aadministration, local or national.
Boris hasn't covered himself in glory with this farce, but let's put it in context; no-one is suggesting he has actually fiddled his expenses or defrauded the taxpayer in a criminal manner, like really happened in the Commons expenses scandal where a number of MP's of all parties ended up getting criminal records.
Johnson just fancied a plush makeover, and was a bit unwise in the manner of raising the additional funds over and above the official allowance. The Taxpayer isn't actually out of pocket, as the £30k was already budgeted for, and the excess wasnt paid for out of the public purse. The Taxpayer will end up out of pocket now though, once the cost of the official investigation into the story is added up.
The mischief-makers pushing the story don't actually care a shoot about the public funds aspect, all the motivation has been to try to embarrass Johnson and damage the Tories reputation. They don't mind the public footing the bill for their politically-motivated stunt
 

newfhouse

Regressive elitist lefty
The Taxpayer will end up out of pocket now though, once the cost of the official investigation into the story is added up.
Are there any other potential criminal offences committed by senior politicians it would be safe to ignore? What costs are involved in investigating where the money came from and whether the donors received benefits as a result?
 

SkipdiverJohn

Veteran
Location
London
Are there any other potential criminal offences committed by senior politicians it would be safe to ignore? What costs are involved in investigating where the money came from and whether the donors received benefits as a result?
I don't count questionable donor fundraising as the same thing as putting your hand in the public cookie jar and taking more cookies than you are entitled to take. One is outright fraud, the other possibly a conflict of interest issue, if the donor feels they are owed a future favour in return. On the other hand, Trade Unions spend millions on Labour Party donations and sponsoring certain MP's. They don't do it out of pure altruism - they expect some tangible payback in the form of union-friendly government policies.
It's just the other side of the same coin.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Veteran
Location
London
Is it? One looks like it’s hidden in the shadows and done for personal gain, the other is published in annual reports and is generally intended to have wider social benefits.
Both boil down to the same thing, however you try to dress it up. A person or organisation seeks favourable policies, or an influence in policy making, or "the ear" of government, as the payback of giving cash donations, or assisting with things like capaigning manpower.
Publicly, all donors may claim their gifts are unconditional, as may the recipient.
Everybody knows though, the unspoken rule is when you donate you expect a favour if needed, and if you take someone else's shillings you are to some extent in their debt.
What I dislike is the hypocrisy where some types of political donating are seen as virtuous, but other varieties as cronyist or even corrupt. In reality it's all about payback.
 
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