The many benefits of leaving the EU.

I’ve read the paper. To summarise: when the wind blows from Europe it spreads pollutants. Presumably when the wind blows the other way, the UK’s pollution heads to Europe.

It seems obvious to me that leaving the EU gives the UK no influence in its (the EU’s) pollution policies. This paper simply demonstrates the damage done by Brexit.
That does generally make sense: the industrial base of a continent of 55 million people is going to pollute more than the rather small industrial base of the UK.

What I suspect irks the Brexit leaders is that they couldn't undercut the EU because of the pesky minimum standards, so Brexit was partly about getting rid of that. Now they are realising the EU is making sure they still can't, and now they can't even posture or threaten in Brussels or Strasbourg.
 

Rocky

Reprobate
That does generally make sense: the industrial base of a continent of 55 million people is going to pollute more than the rather small industrial base of the UK.

What I suspect irks the Brexit leaders is that they couldn't undercut the EU because of the pesky minimum standards, so Brexit was partly about getting rid of that. Now they are realising the EU is making sure they still can't, and now they can't even posture or threaten in Brussels or Strasbourg.
The crucial thing is how frequently the wind blows from the E and SE and how big a problem this really is. Overall, as a cyclist and walker, I plan for W and SW winds. So I suspect the EU gets more of our pollution than we, there’s.
 
The crucial thing is how frequently the wind blows from the E and SE and how big a problem this really is. Overall, as a cyclist and walker, I plan for W and SW winds. So I suspect the EU gets more of our pollution than we, there’s.
I may be missing something here, but what does this pollution have to do with Brexit?

Is it claimed that post Brexit we will have control over our wind, so don't have to suffer EU pollution?

Or is it that Brexit gives us more control over the EU, so they'll pollute less?

Or, is it that we can build a big wall to keep it all out?

Enquiring minds and all that.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
You have insider knowledge of what's wrong with the farming industry, I only see it from the outside.
I think sustainability is possible while still making a profit. About a mile away we have an organic milk farm that farms in a large but more traditional way. It has grown over the years and provides enough income to support the two brothers who farm it. This must be understood to be at a time when many milk farmers are giving up due to low prices and being unable to make a living.
What ever they are doing they've got it right and a plus is the hedgerows are managed properly and not torn out.
If I find it I've a photo of the cows lying down in the shade of a huge oak tree in the middle of the field. It could have been taken 100 years ago but was in fact taken last summer.
I think the search for ever cheaper food hasn't helped the health of the nation, only guessing but the gross tonnage of an average person seems to have shot up so something has caused it.
That farm will probs have a decent contract with a dairy or processor or other cooperative intermediary that understands the need to pay their supplier a price that allows them to carry on doing what they're doing in the longer term.

If they're not doing direct sales.
Some very small dairies with only 4 or 5 cows are doing that, through direct sales, and making a living.

Your farm will probs have a lower stocking density overall, but will be operating a grazing and feed conservation regime, that will require fewer costly inputs in terms of fertilisers pesticides etc.

They will have worked out their soil care and crop management to obviate the necessity for a lot of those additions.

They'll be recycling nutrients, within the system, and be using holistic practices to keep their cattle healthy.

It requires more methodology, and knowledge, and observation perhaps.. Even more labour, in some cases..
- good, more jobs!!

But less bought in inputs.

I can capture the whole farm gate price for my produce (which makes me a living) but that's partly as a consequence of what I produce, and the area I live in.

I'm also. selling fresher and arguably more nutritious food, at below the cost you'd pay for it in the supermarket, because there is no 'extractive middleman'.

So i can't even be charged with only being accessible to an 'elitist' market.

Trouble is its contrary to what's been peddled as ever expanding profit, and over consumption, mechanisation, and inputs.
And supermarkets taking all the retail profit.

Nothing wrong with new tech, in its place.
It can be really useful.

Just not for its own sake.
A lot of farmers are chasing their tails with debt, and falling returns.

And we see knock on consequences for ecology, climate change, human health, and social fabric of rural and urban life.

Things are slowly changing though.

More, people are waking up to the need for holistic practices, and ways if thinking in so many fields of human activity, if we're going to live well and live better..
OK cracking on again... :hello:
 
The crucial thing is how frequently the wind blows from the E and SE and how big a problem this really is. Overall, as a cyclist and walker, I plan for W and SW winds. So I suspect the EU gets more of our pollution than we, there’s.
It depends on a number of factors. Your simplistic view has some validity, but unfortunately, the experts that have looked into it demonstrate that you aren't correct.
 
Yup. Largely due to Stuttgart as far as I know, which has truly awful levels of pollution caused by too many cars in a city in a narrow valley. It's a nice place but way too over trafficked. It's a matter of social justice as well, because the more heavily polluted areas are generally where poorer people and first generation migrants live. Until recently the centre right local government wasn't interested in helping.

Thank goodness for the EU laws that make sure it doesn't get any worse...
NH4 from cars? :blush:
 
That does generally make sense: the industrial base of a continent of 55 million people is going to pollute more than the rather small industrial base of the UK.

What I suspect irks the Brexit leaders is that they couldn't undercut the EU because of the pesky minimum standards, so Brexit was partly about getting rid of that. Now they are realising the EU is making sure they still can't, and now they can't even posture or threaten in Brussels or Strasbourg.
What a bizarre thought process. Largely, if not totally devoid of a factual base.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Saying someone is "lazy and needy" is a little more insulting than correcting though isn't it?

Anyway, I see what you're doing, I shant help you with it.
The only 'insult', as ever, is disagreeing with the majority of the regulars on here.

Oh, and disagreeing is also trolling isn't it?
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
You were talking about an Icelandic low and called it an Atlantic low which yes is the wrong part of the globe. Or are you now saying the two things are the same?
To be fair, air pressure in the Atlantic does have a critical influence on the UK climate; lows in the N Atlantic and highs around the Azores are common. They drive our prevailing SW winds. And air flows from E, SE, S do bring continental pollution to the UK. But they're not the predominant air flow. Pollution levels (PM2.5 notably) rise here when air is flowing from the E-S quadrant, but these are typically for short periods of time. And the higher levels of PM are exacerbated when there is relatively little airflow. That, I reckon, is largely because we're then left stewing largely in our own home-grown muck - it certainly is the case in the London basin. (No link that I have seen points to Ruhr/Rhine origins. Or lower EU standards.)
 
To be fair, air pressure in the Atlantic does have a critical influence on the UK climate; lows in the N Atlantic and highs around the Azores are common. They drive our prevailing SW winds. And air flows from E, SE, S do bring continental pollution to the UK. But they're not the predominant air flow. Pollution levels (PM2.5 notably) rise here when air is flowing from the E-S quadrant, but these are typically for short periods of time. And the higher levels of PM are exacerbated when there is relatively little airflow. That, I reckon, is largely because we're then left stewing largely in our own home-grown muck - it certainly is the case in the London basin. (No link that I have seen points to Ruhr/Rhine origins. Or lower EU standards.)
I've posted a link further up thread that helps you with that last bit. It's a known fact that the emissions in Europe can end up creating elevated concentrations in the UK.
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
And comments like that always forget that such decisions were part of wider negotiations, where concessions were made on a variety of things, for a variety of reasons, so good decisions rarely result.
Just trying to understand your logic. Are you suggesting that give and take in negotiations are bad ? Surely there are concessions, both ways, in any negotiation or contract, be that political or commercial or whatever. Logically isn't that the same as "all agreements must be bad on principle" ? If you mean something else as presumably you do I'd be interested to hear what it is
 
Just trying to understand your logic. Are you suggesting that give and take in negotiations are bad ? Surely there are concessions, both ways, in any negotiation or contract, be that political or commercial or whatever. Logically isn't that the same as "all agreements must be bad on principle" ? If you mean something else as presumably you do I'd be interested to hear what it is
Nope. I was simply pointing out that give and take is part and parcel of negotiations, as others seemed to be unaware of that.
 

C R

Veteran
Location
Worcester
Enjoying the meltdown spectacle, complete with failed flounce, of another Brexsh1t clown who's willingly picked up the self-humiliation baton.

The inexorable failure of these desperate attempts to pretend their enormous Brexsh1t turd is nothing more than an enormous turd, of benefit to no one but a detriment to all, at least provides some amusement in trying times.

Well done Brexsh1t fans - your eager voluntary self-humiliations are a tiny step on the road back to sanity, but a step nevertheless.
I admire your optimism.
 
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