The Post-Brexit Thread

I think what you've alluded to here is a massive part of the picture.

With Thatcherism, and any government coming afterwards, unionism was considered beyond the pale..

So we had clever ol Reaganism trickle down* divide and rule economics, break up and disempower the unions.

Now we have untramelled free marketeerism, zero hours contracts, and economically disadvantaged people scrabbling for a poorly paid job, driving frenetically for [insert delivery company nsme here]

Everyone being pitted against everyone else.
On a race to the bottom.

*It's capillary up of course, the wealthy don't let their wealth 'trickle' .. That's why they're so wealthy.. Hooray!!

The barely taxed well off can go "Look out you strugglers, that naughty immigrant is after the biscuit crumbs, that should rightfully be yours "

Of course now we're Brexitting - "will of the people" etc etc.

We can have even fewer of those filthy working time directives and social protections.

Oh dear.
I think that was the goal since before the vote: they just had to get the people who would be worst affected to vote for it so it had a veneer of "democracy". It must have been so annoying to the Brexit leaders to find that in a democratic system Parliament actually had a say...
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
There is some good news. Boris Johnson is such an incompetent, and is taking the country down such a rabbit-hole of self-destruction, that the clamour to get back in the customs union and then the single market will become unignorably loud within the next few years. And from there it's only a hop, skip and a jump back inside the EU.

That, and the facts that post-referendum support for Britain's membership of the EU has held up consistently (it's almost always ahead on polls) and that opposition to the EU elsewhere in Europe has crumbled.
This is my favorite fantasy / hope right now
srw seems like a sensible person, so I'm not letting myself get too depressed.

Yes we will have wasted inordinate amounts of money, but we might also have learnt a thing or two about ourselves, and our place in the world at the same time, so...

I think that was the goal since before the vote: they just had to get the people who would be worst affected to vote for it so it had a veneer of "democracy". It must have been so annoying to the Brexit leaders to find that in a democratic system Parliament actually had a say...
We will have to wait and see.
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
And the daffodils have not extended :evil:
Yeah, but no big fanfare in the Hate Mail, Express or Sun. You‘d have thunk they’d have been twatting on about our ‘freedom’ and ‘independence‘.

So that‘s it then. No deal is almost nailed on now. But remember folks, even though the E.U. had no say in the vote, made the terms and options perfectly and consistently clear, weren’t responsible for the cubic kilometres of guano shilled by the various iterations of Tory government and agreed to a number of extensions to bail them out, it’ll still be the EUs fault. Somehow.
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
I’ve spent most of my adult life working in IT, including quite a few years taking money from the government and converting it into shelfware, so I confidently predict that the required Customs IT system will cost between 3 and 6 times the original budget, be delivered 5 years late after ....mmm.... two contract renegotiations and still fail to deliver at least 40% of the required functionality.

Anyone willing to take the bet?
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I’ve spent most of my adult life working in IT, including quite a few years taking money from the government and converting it into shelfware, so I confidently predict that the required Customs IT system will cost between 3 and 6 times the original budget, be delivered 5 years late after ....mmm.... two contract renegotiations and still fail to deliver at least 40% of the required functionality.

Anyone willing to take the bet?
It warms my heart to think I've been working my arriss* off.

Growing good honest fodder for the folks of the valley, and paying tax on the earnings resulting, so that you can do this wonderful work for us .. :okay:

Bravo!!!

* Still, said derriere is in reasonable shape as a result, so I can just bask in the satisfactory glow of the gym fees saved :angel:
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
It warms my heart to think I've been working my arriss* off.

Growing good honest fodder for the folks of the valley, and paying tax on the earnings resulting, so that you can do this wonderful work for us .. :okay:

Bravo!!!

* Still, said derriere is in reasonable shape as a result, so I can just bask in the satisfactory glow of the gym fees saved :angel:
Believe it or not, I cared about the work. Most people did, although I wasn’t working for the worst of the worst in the shape of Capita and their like.

It’s just that the UK government is bad at procurement and spectacularly bad at IT procurement. Value for money is often interpreted as “cheapest” and bids are rarely assessed critically to determine whether the costs, timescales and deliverables are realistic. Requirements are usually unrealistic, muddled, technically naive and out of date before the first line of code gets cut. There‘s still an overcentralised and micromanaged approach that mistrusts iteration and incremental development. Civil servants and politicians are more often than not non-technical and not in a position to judge, manage or even contemplate the complexity of a modern IT system. Companies understand that over-promising gets the contract and under-delivery is almost expected. Shareholders generally care more about winning bids than delivering them because contracts make money and delivery is a cost.

Put your money into paper mills near Dover and Folkestone, because that’s how this’ll be managed on the 31st Jan 2021.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Believe it or not, I cared about the work. Most people did, although I wasn’t working for the worst of the worst in the shape of Capita and their like.

It’s just that the UK government is bad at procurement and spectacularly bad at IT procurement. Value for money is often interpreted as “cheapest” and bids are rarely assessed critically to determine whether the costs, timescales and deliverables are realistic. Requirements are usually unrealistic, muddled, technically naive and out of date before the first line of code gets cut. There‘s still an overcentralised and micromanaged approach that mistrusts iteration and incremental development. Civil servants and politicians are more often than not non-technical and not in a position to judge, manage or even contemplate the complexity of a modern IT system. Companies understand that over-promising gets the contract and under-delivery is almost expected. Shareholders generally care more about winning bids than delivering them because contracts make money and delivery is a cost.

Put your money into paper mills near Dover and Folkestone, because that’s how this’ll be managed on the 31st Jan 2021.
Yes I have heard similar from other folks working on Gov IT projects..

Don't worry its not a shocking revelation to me.

Can only hope that dosh is still sloshing around the UK economy, in some way shape or form.

At least not offshored to some tax haven.

I'm thinking a new (to me) tractor, is my most urgent 'investment vehicle*' at this time.

*see what I did there :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, but no big fanfare in the Hate Mail, Express or Sun. You‘d have thunk they’d have been twatting on about our ‘freedom’ and ‘independence‘.
I suspect they don't want to make a big thing of it because they don't want to be associated with the damage.

So that‘s it then. No deal is almost nailed on now.
I think it always was, from the day after the referendum. All the promises made, scaremongering, and anti-immigration were just a way to get the vote over the line.

But remember folks, even though the E.U. had no say in the vote, made the terms and options perfectly and consistently clear, weren’t responsible for the cubic kilometres of guano shilled by the various iterations of Tory government and agreed to a number of extensions to bail them out, it’ll still be the EUs fault. Somehow.
I think this was nailed on too: the UK gov will need an enemy to focus people on, so that when people start asking why they are getting paid less or the NHS is even worse funded than before and factories are closing et c, there is someone to blame. It has the added advantage that it means anyone complaining that none of the promises were kept is therefore on the side of the "enemy" and therefore a "traitor" and can be marginalised. Brexit politicians will put on their sad faces and say that the UK has the potential to achieve everything they said, but the nasty EU is sabotaging every attempt made by the Plucky Brits to be free...*

I expect that's what the Mark Francois letter is about too: it's factitious nonsense, but they will be able to point at it in the future as evidence that they were trying to Fight For Britain and warn the EU, but the EU carried on regardless with their "unreasonable" demands.

*Which is odd, as "They need us more than we need them" but, hey, logic...
 

screenman

Legendary Member
I think what you've alluded to here is a massive part of the picture.

With Thatcherism, and any government coming afterwards, unionism was considered beyond the pale..

So we had clever ol Reaganism trickle down* divide and rule economics, break up and disempower the unions.

Now we have untramelled free marketeerism, zero hours contracts, and economically disadvantaged people scrabbling for a poorly paid job, driving frenetically for [insert delivery company nsme here]

Everyone being pitted against everyone else.
On a race to the bottom.

*It's capillary up of course, the wealthy don't let their wealth 'trickle' .. That's why they're so wealthy.. Hooray!!

The barely taxed well off can go "Look out you strugglers, that naughty immigrant is after the biscuit crumbs, that should rightfully be yours "

Of course now we're Brexitting - "will of the people" etc etc.

We can have even fewer of those filthy working time directives and social protections.

Oh dear.

Talking to a UPS driver yesterday £30,000 a year basic plus overtime, 4 hours on a Saturday puts another £100 in his wage packet. Another pal of mine drives for DPD and is happier than he was when he owned a timber yard and employed 4 guys.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Talking to a UPS driver yesterday £30,000 a year basic plus overtime, 4 hours on a Saturday puts another £100 in his wage packet. Another pal of mine drives for DPD and is happier than he was when he owned a timber yard and employed 4 guys.
That's great for them.

Maybe delivery driver wasn't a good example, the ones I know aren't such happy chaps, but I guess it varies.

I can sympathise with the whole not having to organise other peoples work though.
 

perplexed

Legendary Member
Location
Sheffield
I’ve spent most of my adult life working in IT, including quite a few years taking money from the government and converting it into shelfware, so I confidently predict that the required Customs IT system will cost between 3 and 6 times the original budget, be delivered 5 years late after ....mmm.... two contract renegotiations and still fail to deliver at least 40% of the required functionality.

Anyone willing to take the bet?
I don't want to name the sector, so my story falls under anecdote, but to underscore your point;

We had repeated promises that IT solution 'X', the cure for all our ills, would be in place by 1998.

I left that sector in 2018 and 'X' was still nowhere to be seen...
 
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