The ultimate Sir Keir Starmer thread

theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
A bad egg is a bad egg and will need little or no encouragement on the policing front, however for a Labour Shadow Cabinet member to retweet anything suggesting Israel was involved, without evidence, is, at best, tone deaf and , at worst, blatantly stupid.
Police brutality, in Israel or the US, has nothing to do with 'bad eggs' - it's systemic repression.

Long-Bailey's Tweet consisted of the words 'Maxine Peake is a diamond' and a link to a wide-ranging interview with Peake in the Independent. Neither the headline or the sub mentioned Israel at all. The interview presents Peake's political views in a conversational, somewhat scattergun manner, talks about her new film, and prompts her to discuss the George Floyd murder after she has just been talking about the suppression of the poor. It's an edited interview, not a transcript.

The Israeli police are specialists in internal repression, and US police departments learn from them in organised ways. Anyone who is seriously losing sleep about whether kneeling on people's necks is a taught technique or merely an inevitable outcome is dancing on the head of a pin.

People's good faith in wanting to understand and avoid anti-semitism is being cynically exploited here. I'm not interested in whether RLB was 'wise' to share the article - I came to the conclusion during the leadership contest that she wasn't prepared for the onslaught of bad faith that was heading her way. Anyone on the left knows about the way criticism of Israel is being deliberately moved off limits - the differences are about how they contest this. I just hope those people of the soft left and centre who seem to think it's OK to do politics this way because it's purging the lefties enjoy it when they find themselves on the end of this utterly cynical batsh*t authoritarianism.
 

Levo-Lon

Guru
I agree this seems quite minor. But in the context of recent Labour history I think RLB needed to think rather more carefully and Starmer had little choice if he wants to make a clean break.

The word Think and RLB in the same sentence :laugh:
She's just a Corbyn mouthpiece and always will be.

Bye RBL get a box and go to the Park.
 
It's not a conspiracy theory at all - it's just an unproven allegation and possibly a factual error. Not a terribly implausible one though. US police do get training in repressive tactics by Israel. Similarities between repressive state apparatuses of political allies shock.

Here's Amnesty US talking about it four years ago. https://www.amnestyusa.org/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/

No idea whether it's calculating from Starmer or just craven, but either way it's an unmitigated disgrace. Not very 'forensic', either.
And here's Amnesty speaking out about people using their article to defend Wrong-Daily

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/amnesty-international-we-never-reported-neck-kneeling-taught-israelis-us

Those who find this allegation anti-Semitic do not dispute that international police forces share training in a manner of deep concern to international human rights watchdogs. What they do object to is the singling out of Israel in this allegation, when there is nothing to suggest that Israel played any greater part in Floyd’s death than the many other countries that share training with the US, and which also use aggressive restraining techniques. Why is the tragic killing of a black man at the hands of the police, in a country with a long history of racial discrimination and excessive force in policing, now being blamed on the world’s only Jewish-majority state, they ask?
 

theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
Head of a pin, like I said. Anyone who seriously claims this is anything to do with anti-semitism and not to do with Starmer going Full Kinnock on the Left is either disingenuous or credulous. I'm sure people will make up their own minds as to which...

Today, the Independent reports that he's looking to drop the 2030 zero carbon target.
 

theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
It seems so particularly apt though :laugh:
532528


[Image shows Colin Hunt, a character from The Fast Show known for being unfunny]
 

Rusty Nails

We remember
Location
Here and there
Police brutality, in Israel or the US, has nothing to do with 'bad eggs' - it's systemic repression.

Long-Bailey's Tweet consisted of the words 'Maxine Peake is a diamond' and a link to a wide-ranging interview with Peake in the Independent. Neither the headline or the sub mentioned Israel at all. The interview presents Peake's political views in a conversational, somewhat scattergun manner, talks about her new film, and prompts her to discuss the George Floyd murder after she has just been talking about the suppression of the poor. It's an edited interview, not a transcript.

The Israeli police are specialists in internal repression, and US police departments learn from them in organised ways. Anyone who is seriously losing sleep about whether kneeling on people's necks is a taught technique or merely an inevitable outcome is dancing on the head of a pin.

People's good faith in wanting to understand and avoid anti-semitism is being cynically exploited here. I'm not interested in whether RLB was 'wise' to share the article - I came to the conclusion during the leadership contest that she wasn't prepared for the onslaught of bad faith that was heading her way. Anyone on the left knows about the way criticism of Israel is being deliberately moved off limits - the differences are about how they contest this. I just hope those people of the soft left and centre who seem to think it's OK to do politics this way because it's purging the lefties enjoy it when they find themselves on the end of this utterly cynical batsh*t authoritarianism.
So Starmer will soon be after the soft left and centre of the party as well as the hard left? You are Martin Niemoller AICMFP.

This is just yet another battle in the perennial war between the left and the centre left in the Labour Party and at the moment it is those on the further left who are unhappy that their vision of the promised land has been snatched away from them.

Whether RLB was or wasn't supporting an anti-semitic/Zionist trope is less important than her lack of judgement, as an Education Minister of all things, about how that re-tweet could be used against the party. It was quite a harsh thing to do but I can see the benefit in showing to voters that Starmer is more ready to take action against ministers/advisors than Johnson.

She has not had the party whip withdrawn, is still an MP, still has a career, and can continue to make her views known from the back benches.
 

GilesM

Guru
Location
East Lothian
Head of a pin, like I said. Anyone who seriously claims this is anything to do with anti-semitism and not to do with Starmer going Full Kinnock on the Left is either disingenuous or credulous. I'm sure people will make up their own minds as to which...
Making Labour a realistic electable opposition is what Starmer needs to do, getting rid of Long-Bailey and anybody else tainted by the project Corbyn will be part of that plan, forget the reasons, but yesterday the chances of me voting Labour again seriously increased, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 

theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
So Starmer will soon be after the soft left and centre of the party as well as the hard left? You are Martin Niemoller AICMFP.

This is just yet another battle in the perennial war between the left and the centre left in the Labour Party and at the moment it is those on the further left who are unhappy that their vision of the promised land has been snatched away from them.

Whether RLB was or wasn't supporting an anti-semitic/Zionist trope is less important than her lack of judgement, as an Education Minister of all things, about how that re-tweet could be used against the party. It was quite a harsh thing to do but I can see the benefit in showing to voters that Starmer is more ready to take action against ministers/advisors than Johnson.

She has not had the party whip withdrawn, is still an MP, still has a career, and can continue to make her views known from the back benches.
I barely have the energy to reply to a take this weak. It's quite extraordinary that people who apparently see themselves as moderates think it's OK to exercise arbitrary factional discipline on this scale, and haven't even begun to face their own hypocrisy after spending the last five years losing the plot if CLP members even dared to suggest they might consider instituting a completely democratic process because they were unhappy with the conduct of their MP. Number of right-wing MPs removed by Corbyn or Corbynistas: 0. Number of left-wing MPs purged of office by Starmer: all of them, now including the main architect of arguably their most important policy. At least have the guts to argue for this kind of nakedly factional authoritarianism if it's what you believe in. Just stop all pretense that it's about 'unity' or 'judgement'.
 

theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
Making Labour a realistic electable opposition is what Starmer needs to do, getting rid of Long-Bailey and anybody else tainted by the project Corbyn will be part of that plan, forget the reasons, but yesterday the chances of me voting Labour again seriously increased, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Did someone say your name three times or summat?
 

Duffy

Senior Member
Interesting that the ones doing the Calimero impersonation are the ones who couldn't deal with the problem effectively when in power
Starmer deals with it and they all burst into tears.
 
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