The ultimate Sir Keir Starmer thread

theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
Interesting that the ones doing the Calimero impersonation are the ones who couldn't deal with the problem effectively when in power
Starmer deals with it and they all burst into tears.
Another person who's not across what actually happened, I see.

This is a bit of a long read, but it's a useful catch-up for anyone who, in good faith, has missed out on the extraordinary malice and skulduggery of Labour's right-wing staffers...
 
Making Labour a realistic electable opposition is what Starmer needs to do, getting rid of Long-Bailey and anybody else tainted by the project Corbyn will be part of that plan, forget the reasons, but yesterday the chances of me voting Labour again seriously increased, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
What would be the point of voting for a Labour party too intimidated to pursue policy other than would meet with the approval of the Telegraph?
 

Rusty Nails

We remember
Location
Here and there
I barely have the energy to reply to a take this weak. It's quite extraordinary that people who apparently see themselves as moderates think it's OK to exercise arbitrary factional discipline on this scale, and haven't even begun to face their own hypocrisy after spending the last five years losing the plot if CLP members even dared to suggest they might consider instituting a completely democratic process because they were unhappy with the conduct of their MP. Number of right-wing MPs removed by Corbyn or Corbynistas: 0. Number of left-wing MPs purged of office by Starmer: all of them, now including the main architect of arguably their most important policy. At least have the guts to argue for this kind of nakedly factional authoritarianism if it's what you believe in. Just stop all pretense that it's about 'unity' or 'judgement'.
Unity is a pipe dream in the Labour Party.There is a constant battle, made worse in recent years by the opportunist entry into the CLPs of many new members who saw piggy-backing on the votes of an already popular party as giving them access to power and the sort of influence they would never have got with their own political agendas.

I am more concerned about the electoral success of a left of centre alternative to the Tory party, which was vanishingly unlikely under the last leader. I would disagree with your terms of "nakedly factional authoritarianism" or "factional discipline" because I am not convinced that RLB was sacked because of her left of centre views, which were known when she was appointed, as much as her lack of judgement over the potential ramifications over the tweet in question, and I think you are wilfully conflating authoritarianism with acting with the authority of a democratically elected leader in the interests of the party. The Labour Party needs to be seen as a party of grown-ups not a party of clichéd factional protestors if they are to win power. She of course has freedom to say whatever she wants, but not as a Shadow Minister.

P.s. Wrt to your reference of the Jacobin article, it is very interesting and well written, but so are many articles in the Daily Mail, and equally as partisan. I would not take anything in either of those publications without a large pinch of salt. YMMV.
 
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theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
Unity is a pipe dream in the Labour Party.There is a constant battle, made worse in recent years by the opportunist entry into the CLPs of many new members who saw piggy-backing on the votes of an already popular party as giving them access to power and the sort of influence they would never have got with their own political agendas.

I am more concerned about the electoral success of a left of centre alternative to the Tory party, which was vanishingly unlikely under the last leader. I would disagree with your terms of "nakedly factional authoritarianism" or "factional discipline" because I am not convinced that RLB was sacked because of her left of centre views, which were known when she was appointed, as much as her lack of judgement over the potential ramifications over the tweet in question, and I think you are wilfully conflating authoritarianism with acting with the authority of a democratically elected leader in the interests of the party. The Labour Party needs to be seen as a party of grown-ups not a party of clichéd factional protestors if they are to win power. She of course has freedom to say whatever she wants, but not as a Shadow Minister.
Is it one of those irregular verbs?
You have a political agenda.
They seek illegitimate power and influence.
I am concerned about success.
 

theclaud

It's teeceegawnmaaaad
Location
Swansea
These nasty right wing Labour types doing down the 'pure of heart' left..................
Oh dear.
Is this a reply to something or just a brain splurge?
 

MarkF

Legendary Member
Location
Yorkshire
These nasty right wing Labour types doing down the 'pure of heart' left..................
Oh dear.
They need to wise up, the games over for them, Starmer will take the party right to make them .............electable. I disagree with the sacking of Long-Bailey, on highly spurious grounds, but it is a bleedin ruthless decison and sends out a very clear message. It's amazing how many on here revel and accept the likes & agrees (because they can) when expressing a visceral loathing of the Tories, when apparently never considering this is total turn off for most non-political folk, so when Miriam Morgoyles spouts up and says she wished Boris had died or when Laura Pidcock says she could never be friends with a Tory, it guarantees less votes for Labour & probably more for the Tories.


I am on the Socialist Equality Party mailing list, it's out there for anybody who wants to stop flogging a dead horse.
 

Solocle

Active Member
Location
Dorset / Oxford
What Long Bailey retweeted was reprehensible. That demonstrates incompetence by RLB - and thus she was sacked. I mean, it's a pretty basic
requirement of the [shadow] cabinet to read stuff, and understand the ramifications, fully!

Should she lose the whip for such an offence? Probably not. As much as I'd like to see the far left Corbyn faction down the sewer of history, the offence wasn't that grievous. The punishment was appropriate.

But, if I'm to vote Labour [I would say again, but I'm young enough to never actually have voted Labour], then the antisemitism problem needs robustly dealing with. I'm prepared to let Starmer deal with COVID opposition, but, when the EHRC report comes out, he needs to act fully upon its recommendations.

And, for me, the acid test is booting one J. Corbyn out of the party. There are numerous instances of his antisemitism on record.

As for the issue at hand, it plays on base antisemitic tropes like the blood libel. You may as well argue that a statement like "White Lives Matter Burnley" isn't racist - perhaps it's not intrisically racist, but, given the context...

Compare also Corbyn harking on about "opposing all forms of racism" when antisemitism was this issue. All Lives Matter, anybody?
 
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