VAWAG will this make a difference.

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Just about every thread on here that talks about violence against women and girls gets shut down by some variation of

"Not all men"

(Or we've even had 'not all rape is violence')

Thing is yes we know that it's 'not all men'

The vast majority of men can be perfectly OK , we've noticed.

So what can be done to encourage the small but highly damaging minority that aren't - make it 'very few men, just like it's 'very few women' actually being perpetrator

Greater powers and effectiveness in prosecutions for sure.

These crimes being taken seriously by police and other bodies.

Women having courage to speak out, and up, and support each other,

Not having their experiences diminished by society, routinely being disbelieve d until it's too late, and something awful happens.

Or being told they're 'over sensitive' or just need to 'toughen up'.

Most importantly to my mind education, on respect from the earliest years.

But I still think peer to peer education is possible in later years.

So that prosecutions are rare, for the right reasons.

Not rare because the justice system is broken, but rare because these sorts of crimes don't happen nearly so often..

My faith in our current home secretary to actually be on the side of combatting the roots of VAWAG is rather limited sadly .


But at least it's a conversation starter, the issue is being brought to the fore.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...et-harassment-to-be-made-in-england-and-wales

N.b.

If you wish to start a discussion around violence against men, which is definitely a big problem then feel free to do so..

But somewhere else right ??
 

T.M.H.N.E.T

Disc brakes - Stopping things since 1902
Location
Northern Ireland
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

All uphill

I didn't recognise you but I knew your bike
Location
Somerset
In my view there needs to be changes in policing and the judicial system, and changes to the messages given to, and about the roles of men and women in society.

I'll give you two examples I saw yesterday.

A poster for a charity cycle ride showing four lycra clad men sprinting. Not a woman in sight.

A local college advertising its degree level engineering courses. The image shows young men cheering/shouting.

These images, and others like them, obviously won't cause violence against women but they do insidiously work to tell women what their place is or isnt.

Go ahead and tell me I'm a snowflake/PC gawn mad if it makes you feel better.
 
Of course it's a violence problem, but it is a huge problem with many variations.

It is probably impossible to resolve the whole problem of human-to-human violence, certainly in the foreseeable future, but it should be more productive to look at the various categories of human violence and try and eliminate/minimise them one at a time.

Male-on-female violence is a huge problem and I have no problems with that being prioritised, even if it is seen by some as picking on/insulting men, even those who would never dream of violence to women.

Women's voices and feelings must be the most important in this argument, even if they do not all see the problem, or the solutions, in the same way.
 

AuroraSaab

Über Member
98% of rapes are committed by males. (Stats on the sex of the offender are no longer being accurately recorded though, so that figure may change).

The issue is male violence. The motivation for this violence varies, from sexual entitlement to bravado, to gang warfare, to a myriad of other causes. Trotting out the relatively rare female murderer and sex offender does not make it 'both sides are as bad'.

If we are just talking about violence against women and girls, then restricting Internet porn to over 18's would help. Parents try to teach their boys to respect girls boundaries, porn teaches the opposite - and we have thousands of young men with a huge sense of entitlement about sex, and a generation of girls who are told that porn and Only Fans is empowering, and that having boundaries is prudish.
 

Tail End Charlie

Well, write it down boy ......
A few years back the rules for Womens Volleyball changed to mandate more skimpiness. I have no idea why the women players went along with it; no matter how much you shout Male Oppression, they held all the cards - no players, no matches in any outfits.
Although they wouldn't have received any money had they done that, so maybe they didn't have that much of a choice.
 

Electric_Andy

Heavy Metal Fan
Location
Plymouth
I think many are missing the point here. We all know that loads of men experience violence from other men and sometimes other women. But this thread is all about violence against women and girls. Something that sadly has far deeper and wider roots than blokes getting beaten up for wearing the wrong colour football shirt.

Firstly I find the whole issue of a man approaching a woman fairly seedy to be honest. Yet it is highly glamourised in both film and TV. This whole notion that picking up girls is a rite of passage for young men is archaic and disrespectful. There is a time and a place for chatting up a woman (perhaps if eye contact is maintained and the woman is giving signals that she wouldn't mind being approached). But it's not something that should be done all the time. Mudstick's friend at the beach is a good example of how not to behave.

Secondly, this is probably where it starts; the above scenario being "ok" in any situation, sort of gives blokes (in their mind) an infinite green light to chat up anything they see. I've been in several situations before when out with some girl friends and they've received unwanted attention, despite turning away, walking off, and some of the blatantly obvious things that any decent man should understand means eff-off. I've had to step in as well, hoping that my male presence will be enough of a deterrent despite my small stature. Usually it is, but if the bloke is twice my size and looks like a scrapper then we've all had to move on to another space.

I really can't see how any of this will change though. Man on woman domestic violence/abuse can perhaps be sorted out if a woman goes to the police with a black eye. But as we've heard from many a documentary or realistic film, women often live in fear. Why risk going to the police if they can't really do much until you're beaten to a pulp or dead?

It needs more money for police for a start. For example I've never ever seen a Police presence at the beach in this country. In other countries I've seen a single Police officer patrolling the beach; a good idea because it acts as a deterrent but also allows people to report lewd behaviour/harrassment with some hope of the perp being approached and scared off.

But as with many movements such as BLM, it all starts with education at home and at school. If parents/households do not do their bit then I'm afraid nothing will change. I'm immensley proud of my son because he knows what the rules are regarding respecting other people, and more specifically girls. But for every 100 parents like me, there are probably 20 who will raise knuckle-dragging idiots who when grown up will just repeat the cycle
 
View attachment 600279

The US men's volleyball team recently.
They're not ... cargo shorts, are they?:ohmy:
 
OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I think many are missing the point here. We all know that loads of men experience violence from other men and sometimes other women. But this thread is all about violence against women and girls. Something that sadly has far deeper and wider roots than blokes getting beaten up for wearing the wrong colour football shirt.

Firstly I find the whole issue of a man approaching a woman fairly seedy to be honest. Yet it is highly glamourised in both film and TV. This whole notion that picking up girls is a rite of passage for young men is archaic and disrespectful. There is a time and a place for chatting up a woman (perhaps if eye contact is maintained and the woman is giving signals that she wouldn't mind being approached). But it's not something that should be done all the time. Mudstick's friend at the beach is a good example of how not to behave.

Secondly, this is probably where it starts; the above scenario being "ok" in any situation, sort of gives blokes (in their mind) an infinite green light to chat up anything they see. I've been in several situations before when out with some girl friends and they've received unwanted attention, despite turning away, walking off, and some of the blatantly obvious things that any decent man should understand means eff-off. I've had to step in as well, hoping that my male presence will be enough of a deterrent despite my small stature. Usually it is, but if the bloke is twice my size and looks like a scrapper then we've all had to move on to another space.

I really can't see how any of this will change though. Man on woman domestic violence/abuse can perhaps be sorted out if a woman goes to the police with a black eye. But as we've heard from many a documentary or realistic film, women often live in fear. Why risk going to the police if they can't really do much until you're beaten to a pulp or dead?

It needs more money for police for a start. For example I've never ever seen a Police presence at the beach in this country. In other countries I've seen a single Police officer patrolling the beach; a good idea because it acts as a deterrent but also allows people to report lewd behaviour/harrassment with some hope of the perp being approached and scared off.

But as with many movements such as BLM, it all starts with education at home and at school. If parents/households do not do their bit then I'm afraid nothing will change. I'm immensley proud of my son because he knows what the rules are regarding respecting other people, and more specifically girls. But for every 100 parents like me, there are probably 20 who will raise knuckle-dragging idiots who when grown up will just repeat the cycle
I think many parents are doing a really good job of raising boys to men, in a culture that still, in parts promotes mindless machismo, over well rounded humans.

Better policing would help
But I think it's also cultural

Many of the outdated ideas of what women are 'for' what they should do, what they should wear, how they should act, and so forth, are still propagated in popular culture .

And as @AuroraSaab points out, is horribly skewed in pornographic material

Giving both young men, and women ideas of what is 'normal'.

Not everyone is mature enough of mind, to comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality.

I travel solo a lot ( in non covid times) and I will happily chat to both men and women .

There's a big difference between chatting to.

And creepily chatting up.

Maybe this difference isn't emphasised enough.??
 
OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
.

?

Is that supposed to mean something?

But clearly there is no ruling that they must be "close fit cut on an upward angle toward the top of the leg" so how they can still play properly wearing such baggy shorts is amazing.
Ah but you see mens legs are different in some way...:becool:
 
I think many parents are doing a really good job of raising boys to men, in a culture that still, in parts promotes mindless machismo, over well rounded humans.

Better policing would help
But I think it's also cultural

Many of the outdated ideas of what women are 'for' what they should do, what they should wear, how they should act, and so forth, are still propagated in popular culture .

And as @AuroraSaab points out, is horribly skewed in pornographic material

Giving both young men, and women ideas of what is 'normal'.

Not everyone is mature enough of mind, to comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality.

I travel solo a lot ( in non covid times) and I will happily chat to both men and women .

There's a big difference between chatting to.

And creepily chatting up.

Maybe this difference isn't emphasised enough.??




And 'toughening up' training for all the other women too, maybe.??

They just need to 'get with the 'hard as nails' programme'

I mean I'm doing my best with my own tribe of amazonians, I'd personally not mess with any of them.

But there's only so much I can do ..:sad:




Not fair..

Put them all in mankinis now...
If women players, of their own choice, wear bikini bottoms to play beach volleyball then that is up to them.

But forcing them to wear them, when there is no similar rule for men, re. say Speedos, can only be to attract more pervs to watch the sport. Clearly the number of men, whether pervs or not, watching the sport is more important to the organising authorities than the freedom of choice of the women themselves.
 

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
Location
Bugbrooke UK
@Pale Rider

As a matter of etiquette the correct manner of address for Dame Phillipa Whipple QC is Mrs Justice Whipple.

The plain Justice is an American or Australian usage; it shouldn't be allowed to creep over here unchallenged. :smile::smile:
 
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OP
mudsticks

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
Also nice would be guys not getting all huffy when it's pointed out that it is mostly men doing violence and harassment against women.

That is a fact.
And it needs addressing.


It doesn't mean we think all men do it, most of us have fantastic men in our lives, and encounter plenty out and about too..

But what would really help a lot, I think, is if those decent guys spoke out about this more often, challenged dodgy attitudes .

Rather than just shrugged ,and assumed it wasn't 'their' problem.

And try to make it 'super uncool' to be perpetrators.

I mean none of the Neanderthals really cares what wimmin like me say.

But they might listen to another guy.

Apparently there was a trend for celebrating 'pick up artists' a while back.
Here's hoping that shriveled up, and went away.

But not frequenting the less savoury corners of t'internet i don't really know for sure.:sad:

Is aggreived incel culture still a thing.??
 
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Better prosecution for female harassment and violence is way too late. There must be clear and continuous education and awareness to immediately report incidents, the places to report and properly qualified investigators and support staff to handle it. In too many cases reports are lodged late and key evidence both in physical and eyewitness terms are lost.

Statute of limitation must come back unless exceptions are allowed for special cases and serious cases such as rape. If not limited trained resources are spent investigating old cases at the expense of fresh cases with little possibility of conviction. Statue of limitations will also encourage victims and families and friends of victims to lodge reports earlier.

Lobbying to have laws to prohibit private and confidential settlement where the rich get away. It will also removes opportunists who undermine the severity of actual sexual abuse and assault cases. And where private compensation is paid, that compensation must be forfeited if report is subsequently lodged.
 
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