Venezuela Coup Attempt

The Jogger

Legendary Member
Location
Chichester
Reminds me of Chile.
 

Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Which sanctions are that then?
 

Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"

Covered neatly here -

View: https://youtu.be/AUG2gZGTSmU

Which says the same as FM's link - sanctions were applied on individuals, not the economy. The first sanctions against Venezuelan oil were in January of this year, long after Venezuela collapsed into chaos.

01/28/19 Sanctions Against PDVSA and Venezuela Oil Sector; Secretary of State Michael R. Pompeo; Washington, DC
01/28/19 Treasury Sanctions Venezuela's State-Owned Oil Company Petroleos de Venezuela, S.A.
01/23/19 White House Statement From President Donald J. Trump Recognizing Venezuelan National Assembly President Juan Guaido as the Interim President of Venezuela
01/12/19 Ensuring Venezuela's Constitutional Order and Safety of Elected Officials; Deputy Spokesperson Robert Palladino; Washington, DC
01/08/19 Treasury Targets Venezuela Currency Exchange Network Scheme Generating Billions of Dollars for Corrupt Regime Insiders
12/18/18 Venezuela Fact Sheet
11/02/18 Remarks by National Security Advisor Ambassador John R. Bolton on the Administration's Policies in Latin America
09/25/18 The United States Imposes Sanctions on Venezuelan Individuals and Entities; Office of the Spokesperson; Washington, DC
09/25/18 Treasury Targets Venezuelan President Maduro's Inner Circle and Proceeds of Corruption in the United States
05/18/18 Treasury Targets Influential Former Venezuelan Official and His Corruption Network
03/19/18 Treasury Sanctions Four Current or Former Venezuelan Officials Associated with Economic Mismanagement and Corruption
01/05/18 Treasury Sanctions Four Venezuelan Government Officials Associated with Corruption and Oppression
11/09/17 Treasury Sanctions Ten Venezuelan Government Officials
08/09/17 Treasury Sanctions Eight Individuals Involved in Venezuela's Illegitimate Constituent Assembly
07/31/17 Treasury Sanctions the President of Venezuela
07/26/17 Treasury Sanctions 13 Current and Former Senior Officials of the Government of Venezuela
07/17/17 Statement from President Donald J. Trump
05/18/17 Treasury Sanctions Eight Members of Venezuela's Supreme Court of Justice
03/09/15 Statement by the White House Press Secretary on Venezuela
03/09/15 White House Fact Sheet: Venezuela Executive Order
12/18/14 Statement by the White House Press Secretary: Bills Signed into Law
 
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OP
stowie

stowie

Legendary Member
Yeah, there's quite a lot of similarity between Pinochet and Maduro.
Maduro and Chavez simply follow the standard blueprint of populist leaders. The political rhetoric may be the different to other populist leaders, but the results are the same. Chavez had two big advantages which Maduro doesn't have - high oil prices and a lot of charisma. The Chavez revolution certainly redistributed wealth, but unfortunately the economic foundations were based on a single volatile commodity at a historically high price. This was always going to hit problems at some stage.

End the sanctions and let the people benefit from the wealth of their country
I think the people might find that a lot of that wealth has been sold to China. Venezuela still owe around a billion dollars from loans made by China - loans which will be repaid in Venezuela oil at a time when oil production in Venezuela is a total debacle due to mismanagement and cronyism. China have taken a risk with Venezuela to get a foothold in Latin America. China won't let go very easily. And the sanctions were put in place after the collapse of the Venezuelan economy, not before, plus China and Russia are busy doing end runs around the US oil sanctions anyway.

The Russians have told Maduro to stay put, so i think this coup will fail.
I think you are right. Apparently top government advisers and a larger part of the military were due to defect and oust Maduro, but didn't do it in the end. Maduro has the military under tight reign with loyalty rewarded with promotions and perks to the officers and family. The Venezuelan armed forces now have 3,000 generals and admirals - the US only has 920!

Oh dear, true colours coming out.
The problem is that the "enemy of your enemy" might turn out to be a complete bastard as well. Footage during the recent protest has shown Maduro's troops simply running over protesters. Chavez had the support of the poorest in the slums especially in Caracas. Maduro has lost this support. So he has "special forces" (FAES) to root out "troublemakers". Which is a polite way of saying he is employing death squads in the very areas that brought Chavez to power.

The politics of Maduro may look different to the right wing Latin American dictators from decades past, but the results look terribly similar. I cannot understand how this can be defended. The right crow about "the result of socialism" and the left blame "external influences". Both are wrong. This isn't the result of socialism, or the hand of foreign nations, this is the predictable result of a mixture of strong-man populism, cronyism and corruption with a strong dash of utter incompetence.
 

The Jogger

Legendary Member
Location
Chichester
You only have to look at here and France for the failings of Right leaning governments.
They are taken to the streets in France and this government are in total chaos.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
You only have to look at here and France for the failings of Right leaning governments.
They are taken to the streets in France and this government are in total chaos.
Unlike in Venezuela, we and France don't have a hyperinflating currency and a shortage of basic goods in the shops.

Trying to defend Maduro by invoking the undoubted failings of other governments is really shoddy.
 
OP
stowie

stowie

Legendary Member
Unlike in Venezuela, we and France don't have a hyperinflating currency and a shortage of basic goods in the shops.

Trying to defend Maduro by invoking the undoubted failings of other governments is really shoddy.
Other things the UK and French governments haven't done....

Employed death squads and summary execution on their poorest citizens.
Run over protesters using armoured trucks
Renationalised the "golden goose" industry then comprehensively farked it including putting someone in charge from the military with no experience of running a company
farked the economy so comprehensively that 4M of its citizens have fled to neighbouring countries.
Sold themselves to China.

I have argued more than once to friends both with left and right wing world views that Venezuela is not socialism. It is incompetent populism wrapped up in socialist buzz-words. Venezuela no more shows the inherent weaknesses of socialism any more than Putin or Pinochet show the inherent weaknesses of free market capitalism. Neither can it be attributed to the external hand of the US / West who have really "forgotten" about Latin America in the last decades as the Middle East clusterf*ck has drawn all their attention.
 
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