Winter Tour to Northern Norway (Alta)

[whodabear]

Calling all cold-weather crazy cyclsits :

I'm considering riding to Alta, Norway, to arrive in time for an expedition medicine course starting in mid February 2011. Although I've ridden a bit and am confident with my riding and my bike, this level of cold will be new to me. Norway is also new territory. I'll be riding alone, and camping / snow-holing where possible, but am likely to head for warm stays here and there.

I've been reading various bits on this forum and gained some knowledge from the Iditabike stuff, but I still have lots of questions before I am happy to commit to this ride and start buying in the necessary kit.

Thanks for reading, and any help with the questions below will be much appreciated. I will, of course, keep you all posted if I decide to do it.

1. Clothing suggestions:
I'm thinking of wearing synthetic base layers with power-stretch fleece bib and jacket over when riding (I know that sweating is to be avoided, and I do tend to get hot easily), with light-weight shells over if necessary, and a big, fat down jacket to put on when I'm stopped. Boots, however, I have no idea about. I'm going to use flat pedals with Powergrip extra-long foot gripper things, so I can go with a big, non-cycle specific boot. Any suggestions as to what type of boot? Ski-touring boot perhaps?

2. Terrain / road conditions:
I'm going to be on metal spiked tyres (haven't decided which ones yet - there is a good forum topic for that). Hard-pack snow, ice, and slush I figure I can handle, but do you get deep snow on the roads in Norway? Are they frequently ploughed? My low-loader front rack and panniers will turn my bike into an un-ridable snow plough at about 20cm of snow (I'm guessing that much less than that would see me pushing anyway, but 20cm and I'm definitely knackered).

3. Route suggestions:
I've not looked at this at all as yet. Any suggestions anyone? Places / routes to avoid?

4. Bike prep:
I've got lots of useful info from the Iditabike pages (see All Weather Sports, amongst others). These suggest various modifications including stripping and re-greasing moving parts with cold-weather grease, using water-proof cable housings etc. Does anyone have any other specific tips for super-cold bike prep?

5. Camping:
I'm probably going with a TerraNova Laser. I've already got it, and reckon its a good tent. Although I'm not in the market for yet another tent, does anyone think this is an disasterous choice of tent? Or maybe I should bivvy rather than tent it? Does anyone have any suggestions on this?

6. Other kit I intend taking (please let me know if you think any of this is a rubbish idea...
Ortlieb luggage, RAB down sleeping bag (probably the expedition 1000), Primus omnifuel, Brooks leather saddle, Camelback for water (inside the outer layers), Exped Downmat 7.


I'm at an early stage of the planning (as I'm sure you can tell), but I'm pretty up for this trip.

Thanks in advace, all you cold-weather bikers.

WhoDaBear

 

[willem]

Unless you have serious arctic experience from e.g. a stint in the Royal Marines or living in the American North East (I did live there), I think this is pretty suicidal - literally. Have a look here for some of the basics: http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/winter/wintcamp.shtml In addition, northern Norway is pitch dark for much of the day in that time of year. Great idea, but pretty daft, I am afraid (unless you were with the SAS).
Willem

 

[whodabear]

Unless you have serious arctic experience from e.g. a stint in the Royal Marines or living in the American North East (I did live there), I think this is pretty suicidal - literally. Have a look here for some of the basics: http://www.princeton.../wintcamp.shtml In addition, northern Norway is pitch dark for much of the day in that time of year. Great idea, but pretty daft, I am afraid (unless you were with the SAS).
Willem

Hi Willem,

I appreciate any and all advice - including the "don't be an idiot - you'll die" variety. I have no intention of dying on a bike ride, or for that matter, sacrificing any extremities to a cold-weather biking project.

I'm still trying to work out whether or not this trip is viable - and I hear you clearly voting a "no!" - fair enough.

I am going to be meeting with a friend who has trekked to the South Pole tomorrow, and getting in touch with a Norweigan guide he knows soonafter to chat more about it.

In the mean time, I'm still keen to hear from other folks, both on the "don't be an idiot" vs. "give it a try" vote, and, perhaps more helpfully, on the "well, if I was going to do it I would do it like this..." front.

Thanks again for the advice so far.

I look forward to hearing more from you and others.

 

[Telemark]

I look forward to hearing more from you and others.

As for "what to take" - cross-country skis and a sled trailer (INSTEAD of the bike )

When the snow gets a little deep (and it doesn't need to get much above your tyres) and it's the "wrong kind of snow", your bike may decide it doesn't want to move anymore ... or it could start "floating" in really light powdery snow ... or it could be icy if the temperature is around zero or has been in the past ...
Personally, I'd steer well clear of cycling in such extreme conditions, if you must have an adventure, take the skis
You can always go back there with the bike once the snow is gone ...

Of course, you could end up with clear & well gritted roads all the way, and the snow is just there beside the road, pretty to look at (and soft to sleep on in your tent), but equally you could end up in a white-out ...
T

 

[jay clock]

Firstly, utterly bonkers, but it looks like you have had a serious stab at thinking of some of the issues. Better than some people who come on here. I recall a young lad who was going to cycle from Sicily to the UK doing 120 miles a day sleeping in hedges. But he did it, so maybe you will. The cold will be terrible but I think the dark will be the killer....

Do look at crazyguyonabike.com....

Jay

 

[toroddf]

Off the most stupid ideas.............. 

Well, parts of this route was attempted two years ago and almost ended up with two fatalities. Those two guys gave up after one day and with a serious warning to others never to try this suicidal task again. 

The reason is the thing you have forgotten to think about: The cars. Or rather the trucks. During the winter, the Norwegian roads is developing into single tracks, literary speaking. The line between the yellow marking and the white marking, that's the road shoulder, develops into two grooves. One groove for the right tires and one groove for the left tires. The bit nearest to the white stripe/the road shoulder, where you are supposed to be, is developing into a 45 degree steep icy snow boulder. That part is impossible to cycle on. It is even close to impossible to walk on this bit of the road and I have many times been scared witless by having to walk along a road at this time of the year. It is in fact luck that I am able to write these lines. Many others has not been that lucky......... and we are talking about walking here with suitable shoes. 

You cannot move to the road shoulder where you spend your time at the summer time. You will therefore end up in the right groove (they drive on the right side in Norway) where you will get in conflict with the cars and the 50 feet long, multi tonnes big trucks. Guess who will win in that conflict ? The trucks cannot move out of their grooves because they will loose control over their vehicles. If there is oncoming traffic, that means personal injury or fatalities. You cannot move out of the groove because of the 45 degrees steep icy boulder you have to climb. You are stucked in the right groove. If the truck is closing in at you in bad light and in 50 miles an hour, guess who is in trouble ? Answers on a headstone, please.  

The darkness and very bad light also makes this, at best, a suicidal journey. The worst case scenario is if you put anyone's else life in danger or terminates their lives due to the chaos you will create on the road.

There is simply things in life you don't do. This is one of these things.




 

   

 

[elduderino]

Here's a journal of a guy who cycled the ice roads of Estonia in mid-winter http://tinyurl.com/34q3ya7 it might be worth a read to you. He also has a seperate post containing his winter gear. He used Schwalbe Marathon Winter tyres.

I also once read of someone doing a coast to coast across Canada in winter, but I forget the link to that one.

Good luck, sounds like an adventure.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

the best bike for the job is a surly pugsley, with large marge rims and endomorph tyres. cheap to build as well. good luck, hope you don't suffer too badly.

 

[Crankarm]

Unless you have serious arctic experience from e.g. a stint in the Royal Marines or living in the American North East (I did live there), I think this is pretty suicidal - literally. Have a look here for some of the basics: http://www.princeton.../wintcamp.shtml In addition, northern Norway is pitch dark for much of the day in that time of year. Great idea, but pretty daft, I am afraid (unless you were with the SAS).
Willem

+1.

To the OP - LoL is it April 1st????? What utter madness to contemplate such a trip at that time of year on a bike. Surely a candidate for the Darwin Awards if you don't have kids.

Are you heading for the Nordkapp?

Even in the summer months it can be pretty cold and there can be snow closing roads. At least there isn't perpetual darkness. How cold do you think it gets in winter within the Arctic Circle? Have you considered wind chill? Nearly as mad as Rob Lilwall trying to cycle through Siberia in Winter.

If you do go you will need a sled and huskies or a snow mobile and all the equipment you would need treking to the North or South Poles. The transmission of your bike would just freeze in those low temperatures.

 

[whodabear]

Off the most stupid ideas..............

Thank you Toroddf. I like to think of myself as ignorant (as yet ignorant of the facts, hence researching) instead of stupid (I'm not).

Well, parts of this route was attempted two years ago and almost ended up with two fatalities. Those two guys gave up after one day and with a serious warning to others never to try this suicidal task again.

Good Beta as we say in the UK (info from previous folks who have done / attempted what you youself are considering).

The reason is the thing you have forgotten to think about: The cars. Or rather the trucks. During the winter, the Norwegian roads is developing into single tracks, literary speaking...

Not forgotten about - answers to questions like these are why I'm on this forum. Again, good information, and much appreciated.

There is simply things in life you don't do. This is one of these things.

This may be, as you suggest, one of those things that can't be done. Again, thats why I'm on this forum four months or so before the possible start of the trip.


Toroddf - you seem to have some knowledge of the roads in Northern Norway in winter.


Question for you - or anyone else - is this trip all the way up to Alta really is not possible on a bike in winter, how far North would be maybe passable by bike before the roads deteriorate into the cyclist-death-traps that you describe? I'm keen to cycle as far North as possible, and then, if necessary, continue on by other transport.


Could a bike make it from Bergen as far up as Trondheim perhaps? I note that SAS flies from Trondheim to Alta in the winter...


Still keen to hear more from people on this project, especially those from Norway.


Thanks.

 

[Crankarm]

Calling all cold-weather crazy cyclsits :

I'm considering riding to Alta, Norway, to arrive in time for an expedition medicine course starting in mid February 2011. Although I've ridden a bit and am confident with my riding and my bike, this level of cold will be new to me. Norway is also new territory. I'll be riding alone, and camping / snow-holing where possible, but am likely to head for warm stays here and there.

I've been reading various bits on this forum and gained some knowledge from the Iditabike stuff, but I still have lots of questions before I am happy to commit to this ride and start buying in the necessary kit.

Thanks for reading, and any help with the questions below will be much appreciated. I will, of course, keep you all posted if I decide to do it.

1. Clothing suggestions:
I'm thinking of wearing synthetic base layers with power-stretch fleece bib and jacket over when riding (I know that sweating is to be avoided, and I do tend to get hot easily), with light-weight shells over if necessary, and a big, fat down jacket to put on when I'm stopped. Boots, however, I have no idea about. I'm going to use flat pedals with Powergrip extra-long foot gripper things, so I can go with a big, non-cycle specific boot. Any suggestions as to what type of boot? Ski-touring boot perhaps?

2. Terrain / road conditions:
I'm going to be on metal spiked tyres (haven't decided which ones yet - there is a good forum topic for that). Hard-pack snow, ice, and slush I figure I can handle, but do you get deep snow on the roads in Norway? Are they frequently ploughed? My low-loader front rack and panniers will turn my bike into an un-ridable snow plough at about 20cm of snow (I'm guessing that much less than that would see me pushing anyway, but 20cm and I'm definitely knackered).

3. Route suggestions:
I've not looked at this at all as yet. Any suggestions anyone? Places / routes to avoid?

4. Bike prep:
I've got lots of useful info from the Iditabike pages (see All Weather Sports, amongst others). These suggest various modifications including stripping and re-greasing moving parts with cold-weather grease, using water-proof cable housings etc. Does anyone have any other specific tips for super-cold bike prep?

5. Camping:
I'm probably going with a TerraNova Laser. I've already got it, and reckon its a good tent. Although I'm not in the market for yet another tent, does anyone think this is an disasterous choice of tent? Or maybe I should bivvy rather than tent it? Does anyone have any suggestions on this?

6. Other kit I intend taking (please let me know if you think any of this is a rubbish idea...
Ortlieb luggage, RAB down sleeping bag (probably the expedition 1000), Primus omnifuel, Brooks leather saddle, Camelback for water (inside the outer layers), Exped Downmat 7.


I'm at an early stage of the planning (as I'm sure you can tell), but I'm pretty up for this trip.

Thanks in advace, all you cold-weather bikers.

WhoDaBear

............ it's a rubbish and foolhardy idea.

Err ............... I don't think you have grasped what is safe cold weather cycling and what is just suicidal.

What happens when your excessively sweaty clothes cannot keep you dry as they are soaked in sweat which is unable to evaporate as it's too cold? How are you going to dry them if camping? And your bike will seize up in the extreme cold.

Unbelievable ..................

 

[whodabear]

Even in the summer months it can be pretty cold and there can be snow closing roads. At least there isn't perpetual darkness. How cold do you think it gets in winter and have you considered wind chill?

-26[sup]o[/sup]C February this year, though I note Alta a little milder than some of the surrounding areas. And yes, I've heard it feels colder when its windy.

The transmission of your bike would just freeze in those low temperatures.

I note the Rohloff speed-hub I run is guaranteed down to -30[sup]o[/sup]C if the transmission oil is thinned with 50% cleaning oil. I assume that you are not referring to the rest of the chainset?

Anyone have any further helpful information? There have been some really useful posts so far, though sadly, Crankarm, yours not one of them.

 

[Crankarm]

-26[sup]o[/sup]C February this year, though I note Alta a little milder than some of the surrounding areas. And yes, I've heard it feels colder when its windy.




I note the Rohloff speed-hub I run is guaranteed down to -30[sup]o[/sup]C if the transmission oil is thinned with 50% cleaning oil. I assume that you are not referring to the rest of the chainset?

Anyone have any further helpful information? There have been some really useful posts so far, though sadly, Crankarm, yours not one of them.

If mine or any of the other rational replies persuade you against you hair brained idea then they will have achieved something. They will probably have saved your life and those of others trying to rescue you when you get into difficulties. If it was simply your life that you put at risk attempting this idiotic endeavour then I would say go, but unfortunately in these scenarios it never is.

I wouldn't be worried to much about the bike but my own extremities such as hands, fingers, feet, toes. Frost bite will be a very real and a serious problem. You do realise that if frost bite is serious then the only remedy is amputation?

It's not a case of getting a little bit cold feet and hands as in cycling in a UK winter even as cold as -8C feels. That you can warm your feet when you get home and not suffer any ill effects. The very low temperatures you will experience should you go ahead will have very serious implications for your survival.

As I say ............. unbelievable.

 

[whodabear]

............ it's a rubbish and foolhardy idea.

Err ............... I don't think you have grasped what is safe cold weather cycling and what is just suicidal.

What happens when your excessively sweaty clothes cannot keep you dry as they are soaked in sweat which is unable to evaporate as it's too cold? How are you going to dry them if camping? And your bike will seize up in the extreme cold.

Unbelievable ..................

Yes - I am aware that sweat can not evaporates if its too cold, fouls your down layers, reducing their insulation, and hence kills you if cold enough. Hence the Innuit saying "If you sweat, you die". This effect is a major problem if camping for prolonged periods in extreme cold.


I have no intention of camping all the time, the indoor time being used to melt, and then to dry the insulating layers. Another approach being to use vapour barrier layers, though I'm sure you know this already.


As for the bike. I note the Iditabike folks recommend stripping and re-greasing where possible, all parts with a cold-temperature compatible grease (please see previous link).


But to be honest, I'm here for the informed and useful suggestions, rather than the insults Crankarm.


That doesn't mean you have to agree with me. Infact, I will likely find more use in posts that suggest I'm wrong about something rather than confirming what I already know.


Now. Back to business, especially on the question of:
OK, so how far North can you get in Norway before the roads become un-bikable in winter?

 

[Crankarm]

I think you are an idiot if you think you are being insulted. I merely state your idea is mad, hairbrained ..........
which it clearly is. You asked for thoughts and to say if anyone thought your idea rubbish. I did.

Well I'm fairly thick skinned. There are all sorts of nutters on cycling forums posting hair brained schemes such as yours.

As I say if mine and others' responses at least make you think about the real practical problems you will face trying to stay alive or avoid serious physical impairment as a result then they will have achieved something.

You have obviously decided to embark on this trip. If it all goes tits up for you which is a distinct possibilty I hope no one else is injured or loses their life encountering or rescuing you. Maybe you just disappear and your frozen body is found next year when the snows melt? Maybe you are never found ....................

Anway your first problem will be trying to ride in deep snow working out where the road goes if you deviate from the main roads or decide to go beyond the road closed signs.