Would Trixiemirrors save lives
- Thread starter Bikepeter
- Start date
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A reasonable point, but one that would take a good deal of effort on the part of manufacturers, and as history has shown - the only thing they generally respond to is consumer demand (and I don't see that being one of them in this case) and legislation (which would be an interesting thing to look at).
Apart from left-side and forward-viewing cameras I'm not sure what technical developments could be made to improve the lot of the driver, and the cyclist who's on the inside?
There's one obvious one - move the driver over to the left hand side - but I can't see anyone going for that.
An alert system that couldn't be tampered with perhaps - that gives a soft warning tone whenever someone or something is on the left side of the vehicle? A left-side-facing minature radar perhaps?
It's an interesting subject. What else could be added/modified do you think?
Cheers,
Shaun
frank9755
Cyclist
- Location
- West London
How about a rising bollard at the first white line (start of ASL) that is in phase with the lights. Any vehicle that goes into the box gets impaled!
[QUOTE 1375688"]
I know that Norm, but since Gaz mentioned ''mirrors'' and not ''trixie mirrors'' and the picture is incorrect regardless. As without the trixie mirror that is not the blind spot surrounding that truck.
If I was sitting in that cab in the picture I would see the cyclist in front of the cab and also the cop with the bike on the n/s. [/quote] It's a long time (16 years!) ago but I ran a fleet of Daf tractor units. They were pretty poor for forward visibility, with the seats set quite a way back and very shallow windscreens,
I saw a few people getting caught out walking in front of a unit pulling off a bay when the driver couldn't see them, so I wasn't surprised to at the suggestion that bike in front wouldn't be visible but I'm happy to hear otherwise.
I know that Norm, but since Gaz mentioned ''mirrors'' and not ''trixie mirrors'' and the picture is incorrect regardless. As without the trixie mirror that is not the blind spot surrounding that truck.
If I was sitting in that cab in the picture I would see the cyclist in front of the cab and also the cop with the bike on the n/s. [/quote] It's a long time (16 years!) ago but I ran a fleet of Daf tractor units. They were pretty poor for forward visibility, with the seats set quite a way back and very shallow windscreens,
I saw a few people getting caught out walking in front of a unit pulling off a bay when the driver couldn't see them, so I wasn't surprised to at the suggestion that bike in front wouldn't be visible but I'm happy to hear otherwise.
Origamist
Legendary Member
A reasonable point, but one that would take a good deal of effort on the part of manufacturers, and as history has shown - the only thing they generally respond to is consumer demand (and I don't see that being one of them in this case) and legislation (which would be an interesting thing to look at).
Apart from left-side and forward-viewing cameras I'm not sure what technical developments could be made to improve the lot of the driver, and the cyclist who's on the inside?
There's one obvious one - move the driver over to the left hand side - but I can't see anyone going for that.
An alert system that couldn't be tampered with perhaps - that gives a soft warning tone whenever someone or something is on the left side of the vehicle? A left-side-facing minature radar perhaps?
It's an interesting subject. What else could be added/modified do you think?
Cheers,
Shaun
A lower cab design (walk on, not clamber up) would be a major step-forward. Cabs currently put drivers in a raised and set back position - this serves to accentuate the visibilty problems the drivers face when driving wide, tall and long HGVs in urban centres. I also don't see why more of the cab (doors etc) cannot have more glass, (like buses) which will also aid visibility. These changes would confront the blind spot problem at source - extra mirrors, more cyclist/driver training, motion sensors or cameras etc are doing little more than trying to ameliorate a key design flaw.
Staggered EU legislation would have to drive these changes as the haulage industry is understandably not keen to adopt these measures, primarily due to cost. However, I can't see this happening in the short term.
Origamist
Legendary Member
[QUOTE 1375692"]
But it also gives drivers that needed visability they need. Because of the size and weight of the vehicle you need to be able to judge more the speed of traffic in front of you when movng at speed.
The stopping distance of a 44 tonne truck from 56mph in the wet can be upto 400 yards in some cases.
I don't see why part of the door on the passeneger side can be replaced with glass either to be honest. Bin lorries are designed this way, so maybe...
I disagree with the driver/cyclist training though, cyclists should be educated as should be drivers. You can have all the gizmos in the world on a truck. But if the driver don't look and the cyclist still goes down the inside then you will forever have problems.
And yes and EU directive would supersede any form of legislation in this country, but would it happen? Time will tell.
[/quote]
I'd not suggest the seats in HGV cabs should be at a similar height to cars, but more in keeping with the position of coach drivers.
I'm not arguing against cyclist/driver training, but these are strategies to deal with the status quo - we need to address the root cause of the problem as this benefits both drivers and cyclists in the long term.
But it also gives drivers that needed visability they need. Because of the size and weight of the vehicle you need to be able to judge more the speed of traffic in front of you when movng at speed.
The stopping distance of a 44 tonne truck from 56mph in the wet can be upto 400 yards in some cases.
I don't see why part of the door on the passeneger side can be replaced with glass either to be honest. Bin lorries are designed this way, so maybe...
I disagree with the driver/cyclist training though, cyclists should be educated as should be drivers. You can have all the gizmos in the world on a truck. But if the driver don't look and the cyclist still goes down the inside then you will forever have problems.
And yes and EU directive would supersede any form of legislation in this country, but would it happen? Time will tell.
[/quote]
I'd not suggest the seats in HGV cabs should be at a similar height to cars, but more in keeping with the position of coach drivers.
I'm not arguing against cyclist/driver training, but these are strategies to deal with the status quo - we need to address the root cause of the problem as this benefits both drivers and cyclists in the long term.
[QUOTE 1375691"] Forgive me, I know that there will be a certain amount of ignorance when it comes to trucks and visibility from non drivers and former management 
, but still. People should still do a bit of research and even go jump in one and have a look for themselves (or even study the pic) [/quote]Your point is valid however badly you make it.
, but still. People should still do a bit of research and even go jump in one and have a look for themselves (or even study the pic) [/quote]Your point is valid however badly you make it. Speed limit signs?
summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
[QUOTE 1375691"]
Lucky you
Have another look at the picture Norm, what's that at the top of the windscreen below the n/s ops light - It's a mirror!! Any guesses for where that mirror points to?
Forgive me, I know that there will be a certain amount of ignorance when it comes to trucks and visibility from non drivers and former management , but still. People should still do a bit of research and even go jump in one and have a look for themselves (or even study the pic)
The only bit on that truck in that pic that is blind (depending on how on how the wide angle mirror is set up) is about 2ft behind the front wheel and about a foot out from the side of the truck.
[/quote]
The point is not all lorries have those additional (Class VI?) mirrors .... I've taken the opportunity myself to go up in a lorry with a similar area marked up a couple of years ago and took some photos:
https://www.cyclechat.net/
the mirror's help but it is an eye-opener to get up in the cab and see the view and see how many mirrors the driver needs to look at.
Lucky you
Have another look at the picture Norm, what's that at the top of the windscreen below the n/s ops light - It's a mirror!! Any guesses for where that mirror points to?
Forgive me, I know that there will be a certain amount of ignorance when it comes to trucks and visibility from non drivers and former management
, but still. People should still do a bit of research and even go jump in one and have a look for themselves (or even study the pic)The only bit on that truck in that pic that is blind (depending on how on how the wide angle mirror is set up) is about 2ft behind the front wheel and about a foot out from the side of the truck.
[/quote]
The point is not all lorries have those additional (Class VI?) mirrors .... I've taken the opportunity myself to go up in a lorry with a similar area marked up a couple of years ago and took some photos:
https://www.cyclechat.net/
the mirror's help but it is an eye-opener to get up in the cab and see the view and see how many mirrors the driver needs to look at.
frank9755
Cyclist
- Location
- West London
Interesting pictures - thanks
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
Indeed. We shouldn't presume what added mirrors larger vehicles have or if the driver actually uses them.
Over The Hill
Guru
- Location
- Ridden off into the sunset
I agree with that - the cyclist is the one who has the greatest interest in staying alive and should therefore take care. But, IMHO, the thing that encourages many cyclists into doing exactly the wrong thing is the green cycle lane painted up the left hand side on the run-up to junctions. Why are they done in this way?
OP, sorry for dragging off topic. Could you by any chance post a picture of one of these mirrors? In principal they sound like a good idea, but I'm not sure I know exactly what they are and a few quick searches didn't lead anywhere.
EDIT - have seen one on one of the links from your petition. Brought forward to here for others' benefit.
They look like a good idea. They may even encourage people to stop at the first line. I'll sign!
Sorry but No No NO!
The mirror on the traffic light MAY enable the HGV driver to see the cyclst. The cyclist takes his life in his hands trusting the driver. This seems madness.
The driver may now see more of the blue lane around him but he will be killing the cyclist beyond the mirror on the corner as he cuts round. Mirror will not be there then.
The only safe option is to hang back behind the point where the photograph is taken and not go up alongside the HGV or get into primary in front of the driver.
Origamist
Legendary Member
I'm still dreaming:
https://www.cyclechat.net/
although on the CSs we did get some ASL zones extended from 4m to 5m in depth...