You know who and the wotsit party

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
I dont actually care what you call brexiters, thick, racist, etc other than if I was to talk about remainers the same way then there would be a problem, its the hypocrisy of posters on here, selective outrage is just pathetic.
There really does seem to be only one person getting outraged here.
With regards to the other thread, come and join in, give a different, accurate and evidenced perspective. It's been said time and time again by the Remainers in that thread that they would welcome some succour from leave supporters, but what's needed is something with rather more meat than just believing hard enough.
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Thinking about it, there's parallels with the BP. Rather than getting involved and engaged in something which you are welcomed, invited and encouraged to, it's far more effective, and easier of course, to stand on the sidelines stamping your feet, proclaiming how you are being silenced and excluded, oppressed even.
 
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marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
But then I suppose facts don't matter anymore. It is all about how people feel.
It is, and that they are being listened too and understood.

Unfortunately the odious Mr Gove who didn't quite make it to be our PM was right, the world has had enough of 'experts'.

It's got nothing to do with safe zones LinchPin, or triggers, it's that different sides spend very little talking to each other and there's a lack of listening, not just on brexit, but on many things in life.
 

stowie

Legendary Member
It is, and that they are being listened too and understood.

Unfortunately the odious Mr Gove who didn't quite make it to be our PM was right, the world has had enough of 'experts'.

It's got nothing to do with safe zones LinchPin, or triggers, it's that different sides spend very little talking to each other and there's a lack of listening, not just on brexit, but on many things in life.
How do you connect with people who actively work against the reality of the situation?

For illustration I could use a cycling "debate" - this comes up every single time a cycling related matter arises on local facebook pages.

Someone will always post words to the effect that cyclists pose as big a risk to pedestrians as drivers. Thus ignoring some rather basic Newtonian Physics and the actual statistics illustrating risk to pedestrians. Should we discount this and decide policy based on how people feel? Because no presentation of facts changes their minds.
On a level closer to Brexit people who feel immigration is a big issue will regularly massively overestimate the non UK born population resident in their area and the UK in general whilst often having not even the most basic grasp of UK immigration policy. Should we legislate on how people feel?

Surely this is a quick route to some pretty lousy and ineffective policy decisions?
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
How do you connect with people who actively work against the reality of the situation?

For illustration I could use a cycling "debate" - this comes up every single time a cycling related matter arises on local facebook pages.

Someone will always post words to the effect that cyclists pose as big a risk to pedestrians as drivers. Thus ignoring some rather basic Newtonian Physics and the actual statistics illustrating risk to pedestrians. Should we discount this and decide policy based on how people feel? Because no presentation of facts changes their minds.
Dealing quickly with that cyclists are an out group. Firstly it's online so that's not really a great way of engaging with people. Secondly a lot of the point on cycling debate is that many motorists feel it is 'unfair' and cyclists are breaking unvoiced rules and conventions, there's also a lot of stuff there about identity. The stuff about risks cyclists pose is based on out groups, fear and differences and is a diversionary tactic to talking about that they just don't like cyclists as it threatens their identity and they feel cyclists break all the rules (I don't mean RLJing, I mean having cheap transport, speed etc).

On a level closer to Brexit people who feel immigration is a big issue will regularly massively overestimate the non UK born population resident in their area and the UK in general whilst often having not even the most basic grasp of UK immigration policy. Should we legislate on how people feel?

Surely this is a quick route to some pretty lousy and ineffective policy decisions?
It's about communication, dialogue and then the policy decisions come later, as you very well know. The way that some of the people on this forum go about stuff and out there elsewhere in the world, it's no surprise that no one listens, the sort of style that two posters on here in particular had and a few others, very aggressive, very willy waving, droning on about jobs and degrees, making bad jokes about the Kardashians and tv culture and using words like 'experts' every few words, extremely boorish. Come on, it's not going to help.

It's not about immigration in a large number of cases. People say immigration quite often as a skip button in a conversation, it's just a label. People often use it as they think that's what people think they want to hear or they don't want to talk to someone.

How people 'feel' is after they have talked to someone else on the matter. If politics works better then you get less of the phenomenon that you're talking about.
 

perplexed

Legendary Member
Location
Sheffield
Considering the egregious treatment of Darroch, if Farage is pushing this agenda and the local Tory party organisations are actively seeking deselection of any MP who isn't pure...

Thank goodness the Brexiters are bringing back democracy to the UK eh?

 

perplexed

Legendary Member
Location
Sheffield
Colour me surprised, given the above...

Oakeshott is another one who has a perma seat on various talking head political programmes, not least QT.

I've said it elsewhere, but it's worth repeating - I sense the BXP are starting to lose a little ground. There was a flurry of excitment at their inception, but I think its faded a bit for reasons I've noted. They messed up their own PR with their childish petulance at the 'Ode to Joy' performance, quickly followed by Widdecombes' nonsense about slavery, which made a lot of people uneasy.

One aspect of letting mad headbangers in as their MEPs is that they very soon reveal themselves for what they are. BXP MEPs who were previously unheard of now get a lot of attention when they tweet - and effectively undermine their own cause: be it by tweeting lies about the voting machines or calling for the navy to sink foreign fishing vessels which come within a 200 mile exclusion zone of the UK (they've clearly never looked at a map or considered international law, let alone EU law). BXP MEPs are their own worst enemey from their point of view. The headbanger/far right of the leave spectrum won't care, but the light/perfectly reasonable end will. These are the people the BXP will lose.

 
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