You know who and the wotsit party

Diogenes

Off to that Europe before it closes
You’re right there’s never been any regurgitations from the remainers.
It’s been very much we respect the vote, we think you’re wrong but that’s how democracy works.

But of course in reality the most vociferous supporters of the EU find large government appealing, so the EU is really great in that regard as it fits in with their authoritarian world view.
And of course a dislike of the proles.
Actually, I loathe big government but I believe in the EU for these reasons:

1) The days of a small nation state are over, killed by globalisation.
2) Trade needs less barriers, not more
3) Being part of a large labour pool encourages innovation, wealth creation and growth.
4) A unified set of quality/safety standards makes things easier and safer for all.

If we could cancel Brexit I'd move to change how we interact with the EU

1) Make MEPs directly relateable to constituencies and therefore closer to the electorate. This requires reform within the EU but after the shock they've been through I think they'll be amenable to constructive change. I'd rather see 650 MEPs and 73 MPs in Westminster (do away with the Welsh and Scottish sub-sub-levels)
2) Look to become the driver of the EU. After all, if you don't like the way it is going, take control. A UK at the heart of European decision-making is the best way to see our language and values dominate.
 

LinchPin

Veteran
Location
Recovery tent.
Ah, the 'dislike of the proles' trope. You forgot the follow up of 'by the metroplitan elite'.
Well I think it’s self evident in the way people talk about about stupid brexiters etc when they really mean working class northerners.
I think it’s fair to say that there is a metropolitan elite typified by Corbyn well meaning momentum types who see the disadvantaged as some curiosity to be pitied.
 

perplexed

Guru
Location
Sheffield
Well I think it’s self evident in the way people talk about about stupid brexiters etc when they really mean working class northerners.
I think it’s fair to say that there is a metropolitan elite typified by Corbyn well meaning momentum types who see the disadvantaged as some curiosity to be pitied.
Not sure how the working class northerners bit fits in with the fact that some places such as Newcastle and Liverpool voted remain. Yes, large bits of the north voted leave, but it's also worth noting that the south east, if you factor out London, voted leave. The south west also voted leave. The notion of people pointing at Brexiters and saying, 'look, they are calling you stupid' is generally propogated by the sundry Leave elements. It's a distraction tool to be rolled out on the rare occasions that the interviewer starts to get to them. They are criticised and they immediately conflate criticism of them into criticism of the 17.4 million to deflect.

As for Corbyn, you'll find no particular love for him eminating from me, but not necessarily for the same reasons you give.
 
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Dec66

A gentlemanly pootler, these days
Location
West Wickham

Dec66

A gentlemanly pootler, these days
Location
West Wickham
That’s odd my painter voted Brexit and he said everyone he knew did.
It’s almost as if people refuse to be defined by their group.

Except for the cosmopolitan elite of course
Pretty much everyone under 60 I know, regardless of "their place", voted remain.

What's your point, caller?
 

Dec66

A gentlemanly pootler, these days
Location
West Wickham
Bubbles.
Don’t you find it curious that with 52% of people voting leave that there isn’t a rigorous Brexit thread debating both sides.
That's because all of the ones who post on the thread are asked to give a benefit of Brexit, and all they seem to be able to offer is sound bites, platitudes and (occasionally) lies.

When that all combusts on contact with facts, they abandon the thread.
 

Flying_Monkey

Toll Collector on the Road to Nowhere
Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is a violent racist and nationalist, who has been active member of at least 3 far-right organisations. There's no real doubt about that. He took his current pseudonym (the latest of several) from an infamous football hooligan and gang leader. You can split political hairs about whether he's a fascist or not, in either the general or specific sense. But that's besides the point. No-one should be enabling or excusing him.
 
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