"you should be arrested and banned from the road"

[Eat MY Dust]

I emailed this to a guy who I had a huge bust up with yesterday at work. He really pis*ed me off as he rides a motorcycle (when it's sunny and dry) and I believed he understood cyclists road positioning.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPvX3NgZK-k


What amuse's me is that this is only a 23 second clip from this morning. It took me ages to actually pick which part to show him as there were so many parts that were relative to my argument.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPvX3NgZK-k


I thought I'd let you see a short video of road positioning and speed of cycling. I'm doing 32 mph in this 30 zone and I'm in the middle of the road (something you suggested I should be arrested for and charged/banned from cycling). So the lady in the video overtakes (she must be doing 35mph+) and has to brake so as not to hit the right turning car, you'll see she's in the right hand turn lane and she's failing to signal any of her intentions. She then has to brake heavily to avoid the car that is doing an illegal overtake coming the other direction. You'll also see that her natural reaction is to turn into the kerb (the place you suggested I should be), keeping in mind that a lot of cyclist deaths (in and around London especially) are caused by manoeuvres similar to this.

So in this video you have 2 people breaking the law, neither of them me, but you suggest that I am in the wrong and should be arrested? To be honest I think my best approach would to have been going faster and further out into the road to "block" the impatient driver. Of course you may argue (it's every person right to have an opinion) that if the police were to ban me from the roads I wouldn't be a danger to myself! Still wouldn't have stopped the 2 people in the video from breaking the law though would it. Can I also add as I overtook the red car further down the hill the woman gave me a mouthful about being in the middle of the road. Nice. This is the problem that cyclist have with drivers, ignorance to other people's safety and ignorance of their own behaviour.

You can do a quick search on the internet and I don't think you'll find any research that will tell you that my cycling style is "wrong". On the contrary you'll probably find that it's (almost) textbook. Perhaps the speed is debatable, but I'm only matching that of the drivers around me which again in my opinion is the safest measure.

 

[fossyant]

Fair weather biker - nuf said - is he late 40's or older.....slightly round..... ?

 

[cheadle hulme]

Pure "must get past cyclist" mentality from the Hyundai.

When I've had that in the past and caught up, I've had a word.

"I'm sorry I was in your way back there, at 30mph I wasn't expecting traffic to attempt an illegal overtake. If I'd known you were in such a hurry I'd have moved over".

Let it sink in then a cheery "Drive safely" as you move off.

Note: Does not work on vans of builders.

 

[Crackle]

Has this antagonism towards cyclists increased do you think. I don't remember it ever being so prevalent as it seems now but then road rage and impatience in general seems to have increased. I wonder if also I'm just more aware of it because I read everyone's experiences in commuting.

 

[upsidedown]

Has this antagonism towards cyclists increased do you think. I don't remember it ever being so prevalent as it seems now but then road rage and impatience in general seems to have increased. I wonder if also I'm just more aware of it because I read everyone's experiences in commuting.

I think it has, i had a guy on Monday night tell me i had to get over into the kerb while at lights. I was in primary at a pinch point, when i refused he drove straight at me to prove his point, police coming tonight to take a statement.

 

[Eat MY Dust]

Fair weather biker - nuf said - is he late 40's or older.....slightly round..... ?

lol, exactly. Do you know him

The argument started from the incident I posted on here the other day, where another person at work had pulled out of a junction and hit a cyclist. It was kind of "we pay for the roads/we have priority/you're a danger to other road users" kind of affair.

 

[Bollo]

Its difficult to remain calm when dealing with such ignorance. Unfortunately the arguments/facts about paying for roads, cyclists' rights on the roads and road safety don't boil down into handy little sound bites.

 

[jezhiggins]

Has this antagonism towards cyclists increased do you think. I don't remember it ever being so prevalent as it seems now but then road rage and impatience in general seems to have increased. I wonder if also I'm just more aware of it because I read everyone's experiences in commuting.

I'm not sure there's more antagonism towards cyclists in particular, but I have a feeling that patience is decreasing and driving standards in general are falling. I've nothing concrete to back this up, of course, just a load of anecdotal evidence. Again, I don't know if it's just that I look out for it more now, that driving standards where I live now (Birmingham) are just different than where I first started urban cycling (Norwich), that I have kids of my own that I'd rather weren't squashed, that I didn't learn to drive until comparatively late, or whether I'm just imagining it.

 

[shunter]

As a motorcyclist and cyclist I would make the following observations. First of all there is an allowance for 10% inaccuracy in speedometers so 32mph in a 30mph zone is OK. Giving that most cyclists do not carry a speedometer it is also a pretty moot point. 'Sorry Officer , I made a judgement on my speed relative to the flow of traffic and perceived safety'.

If you were doing 32mph, the car was doing considerably more. Overtaking without regard to the flow of traffic and any obstructions in the road is plain dangerous. The other car overtaking a bus over solid central lines is completely negligent especially when the car in front of you has a clear passage ahead.

The motorcyclist obviously hasn't a clue - I would like to see him remove his protective gear and use a cycle on the route you have videod. Maybe he won't be so quick to open his mouth without engaging his brain.

You have every right to make a decision to ride in the middle of the road to improve your visibility or increase your own safety by preventing cars from overtaking you without moving onto the other side of the road. It is the car two or three back who will not have noticed the ones in front have been overtaking and who suddenly realises they can't slow down enough to avoid pushing you of the road.

 

[mickle]

Its difficult to remain calm when dealing with such ignorance. Unfortunately the arguments/facts about paying for roads, cyclists' rights on the roads and road safety don't boil down into handy little sound bites.

This was my hope for the 'Myths' thread, that it would provide a set of clever retorts for this kind of nonsense.

 

[benborp]

I've been cycling in London for 20 years and it's never been great in terms of drivers' awareness of cyclists.

The recent increase in the number of cyclists has improved the situation in some respects, I don't think any driver in London now should be surprised or inexperienced in dealing with cyclists and I think anyone would have a hard time trying to say that cyclists don't have a right to the road (although there are still some that try).

However, in the last few years though I think the difference between how one should drive and the way that the majority do drive has increased. I think there has been a drop in awareness as to why so many constraints are placed upon the use of a motor vehicle at the same time as a rise in general libertarianism. I think drivers now, more than at any time in the past, are less prepared to comply with a 'system' and less equipped to perceive the needs of others. The fact that to many drivers cyclists don't seem to be obeying the rules (even when they are) and a general tendency to resort to aggression more readily means that more incidents now tend to be born of a sense of antagonism.

 

[Tynan]

I regularly now see excellent drivers, people that pull over to let me through when filtering, don't pull alongside me at junctions when they're going to turn left/right, and yesterday, while bombing downhill and signaling to come out and past a car, the car behind flashed me to say ok, that was a first

I'm afraid I agree with drivers that might view cyclists with suspicion, far too many of them do not meet whatever standard is acceptable, no lights, dark clothing, mounting the pavement, jumping lights and riding in a dangerous manner with no regard for other road users

 

[magnatom]

My own personal experience in Glasgow is that things have actually improved. However, it is certainly anecdotal and is confounded by the fact that my own road skills have improved over that time (yeah, yeah, I know some might disagree) and I now know all of the trouble spots and can take action to mitigate trouble.

However, as the roads get busier, and hold ups more frequent, patience diminishes. I honestly don't think things will improve until people are forced to use cars less (consistently raised fuel costs etc).

I also think that on our roads we have to many rules. This leads to diminished responsibility. Ideally if the road rules could be simplified/reduced and more emphasis was placed on personal responsibility, and punishments were stricter and better enforced when rules were broken, or responsibility was proven, then I think things would improve. Can you see a government bring in such changes though...?

 

[benborp]

No. We're going in the completely opposite direction at the moment. I think we are in a cycle of government legislation and popular opinion reinforcing each other (sometimes quite perversely). Though there is a growing trend for counter intuitive solutions to be considered and implemented at lower levels of government...

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

<snip>

I also think that on our roads we have to many rules. This leads to diminished responsibility. Ideally if the road rules could be simplified/reduced and more emphasis was placed on personal responsibility, and punishments were stricter and better enforced when rules were broken, or responsibility was proven, then I think things would improve. Can you see a government bring in such changes though...?

Not one that wanted to get back in at the next election .. there's too much of a perception of the "poor persecuted motorist" for that. I always wonder why the media go on about "the motorist" as though it's a special subset of the population, rather than a big chunk of it.