YouGov poll re novel suggestion for wiping out some student's debts.

Discussion in 'News and Current Affairs' started by SpokeyDokey, 30 Jun 2019.

  1. Support

    6 vote(s)
  2. Oppose

    13 vote(s)
  3. Don't know

    0 vote(s)
  1. SpokeyDokey

    SpokeyDokey Nearly 63 - oh dear! Moderator

    Pulled from the YouGov website - a somewhat left-field suggestion that has possible merit:

    It has been proposed that anyone who creates a new business which employs more than 10 people for five years would have their university tuition fee debts written off. Do you support or oppose this proposal?

    Support 47%

    Oppose 23%

    Don’t know 30%

    Results from the general population as above showing some sympathy with the idea.
  2. marinyork

    marinyork Resting in suspended Animation

    Debt forgiveness has existed for donkey's years in America (there's a reason for that :sad:). I do find the debate around tuition fees in America more interesting than here, there sometimes isn't the pretence we have about 'graduate premiums' in this country. The debate in America very widely admitted that not everyone is a winner.

    In a world of complete insanity of having £9k fees, if you don't want to tinker much with it, there's a lot to be said of the scheme.

    a) on setting up a business
    b) some kind of public sector service e.g. 10 years (much wider than the rather dull and stereotypical suggestions someone made on the other thread of 'doctors', 'nurses' and 'teachers')
    c) some kind of volunteering aspect (quite problematic)
    d) some kind of caring scheme e.g. a grandparent caring for a child can nominate to have someone's student loans partially written off (saves the state a fortune)
    e) caring duties get you credits along those lines (caring for parents, grandparents)
    f) some combination of the above
    g) debt relief in sectors with low pay you want to encourage people to go into e.g. support worker
    Beebo and C R like this.
  3. Kempstonian

    Kempstonian Has the memory of a goldfish

    I would have thought that if they are in well paid jobs they would be in a position to pay back the loans? Same with the successful business owners employing 10 people.
    Debt forgiveness should only be an option for those not in a postion to pay it back without help.

    Are the loans interest free? If not they should be.
    meta lon and C R like this.
  4. OP

    SpokeyDokey Nearly 63 - oh dear! Moderator

    Yes, I've been thinking about this since I read it and as you say there are other options where the idea could be extended. How workable that is is moot.
  5. Crackle

    Crackle Squatter

    you would have thought, except about 49% of loan burden will be met by the taxpayer because they won't be paid back and yes there is interest on them, the govt uses that to sell blocks of loans to private companies in order to move the debt off govt books, except it really isn't very attractive to most. It is in short, a bit of a con and something of a political hot potato and mess.
    meta lon, SpokeyDokey and marinyork like this.
  6. marinyork

    marinyork Resting in suspended Animation

    I oppose Jeremy Hunt's idea (floating around elsewhere) if taken literally as the only idea to be implemented, ever. I like the idea if it widens debate on the matter.

    Some would say his idea is impractical.
  7. Slick

    Slick Veteran

    I think finally they have realised that university isn't the only option especially for setting up a 10 employee business.
  8. Kempstonian

    Kempstonian Has the memory of a goldfish

    I don't know much about student loans (I don't know anybody who has one) but didn't I read some time ago that they don't have to pay them back until they are earning a certain amount?
  9. marinyork

    marinyork Resting in suspended Animation

    There are multiple systems. There have been multiple and often retrospective changes and sometimes some u-turns on those changes.

    £18,935 threshold for loans 1998 to 2011
    £25,725 (from 25,000, which was itself upped)
    £21,000 threshold for postgraduate loans (the new easiest way of clawing back money although 6% not 9%).
    £30,737 for anyone on the pre-1998 loans (rather interesting if anyone remembers the chequered history these have had).

    in the past the 1998 system for example was £10,000 threshold and kept constant for a long time and caused massive repayment problems. the 1998 to 2011 system had a threshold of £15,000 for many years and frozen for many years (fell in value and more people paid back).

    I can't remember whether those figures are last year or this year (just gone past April).

    Since the tuition fees have come in there have been all sorts of respected studies on tuition fees saying about how little is paid back and that people were right. Or if you're a politician, little is getting paid back so you better change the goal posts e.g. pay back over 40 years, higher interest etc.

    If you look at modelling, the only loan you're likely to payback is the shiny new postgraduate loans.
    SpokeyDokey likes this.
  10. Diogenes

    Diogenes Opinions, schminions

    On the one hand I disagree with giving people something for nothing, including higher education, but on the other hand this loans business seems not to be working. Perhaps a smaller fee, large enough to make people consider whether University is really for them and thus avoid increasing drop out rates which just waste everybody's time, but easily paid back on an average wage.
  11. Kempstonian

    Kempstonian Has the memory of a goldfish

    Thanks for the info. All a bit of a mess really, isn't it?
    SpokeyDokey likes this.
  12. marinyork

    marinyork Resting in suspended Animation

    It is.

    Then there's the fun and games the last couple of years where Longitudinal Educational Outcomes (LEO) data, usually in other forms has completely blown out of the water much of what past politicians have said on graduate earnings.
  13. marinyork

    marinyork Resting in suspended Animation

  14. pubrunner

    pubrunner Guru

    In my opinion, higher education (up to & including, degree level) should be free, so that it should be accessible by all - regardless of background and income.

    I believe that education (up to degree level) and the health system are both things that should be 'free' at source; free, in the sense that recipients should not be directly charged.

    I did a degree ages ago and I wasn't charged any fees and the same was true for my parents - why should I expect current and future generations of students to incur significant debts where I didn't ?. If folk are given 'free' higher education, it isn't really 'something for nothing' is it ?, because the return (outcome) for the state, is a more employable workforce - one which is well-equipped to compete with other countries.
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2019
    Mr Celine, C R and marinyork like this.
  15. lane

    lane Über Member

    Not directly answering the question - but if you earn a higher salary you pay 40% tax so you contribute more anyway. In my view that's enough payback really. I would rather see fees reduced for everyone to a more reasonable level. Part of the cost could be met by reducing the fee the university gets. I see no merit in the proposall in this thread.
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