YouGov poll re novel suggestion for wiping out some student's debts.

See full question in post...

  • Support

    Votes: 6 31.6%
  • Oppose

    Votes: 13 68.4%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19

SpokeyDokey

Into my 64th
Moderator
Pulled from the YouGov website - a somewhat left-field suggestion that has possible merit:

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/results#/survey/2703ec30-98bd-11e9-8ef2-137e9788a9a6

It has been proposed that anyone who creates a new business which employs more than 10 people for five years would have their university tuition fee debts written off. Do you support or oppose this proposal?

Support 47%

Oppose 23%

Don’t know 30%

Results from the general population as above showing some sympathy with the idea.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Debt forgiveness has existed for donkey's years in America (there's a reason for that :sad:). I do find the debate around tuition fees in America more interesting than here, there sometimes isn't the pretence we have about 'graduate premiums' in this country. The debate in America very widely admitted that not everyone is a winner.

In a world of complete insanity of having £9k fees, if you don't want to tinker much with it, there's a lot to be said of the scheme.

a) on setting up a business
b) some kind of public sector service e.g. 10 years (much wider than the rather dull and stereotypical suggestions someone made on the other thread of 'doctors', 'nurses' and 'teachers')
c) some kind of volunteering aspect (quite problematic)
d) some kind of caring scheme e.g. a grandparent caring for a child can nominate to have someone's student loans partially written off (saves the state a fortune)
e) caring duties get you credits along those lines (caring for parents, grandparents)
f) some combination of the above
g) debt relief in sectors with low pay you want to encourage people to go into e.g. support worker
 

Kempstonian

Has the memory of a goldfish
Location
Bedford
Debt forgiveness has existed for donkey's years in America (there's a reason for that :sad:). I do find the debate around tuition fees in America more interesting than here, there sometimes isn't the pretence we have about 'graduate premiums' in this country. The debate in America very widely admitted that not everyone is a winner.

In a world of complete insanity of having £9k fees, if you don't want to tinker much with it, there's a lot to be said of the scheme.

a) on setting up a business
b) some kind of public sector service e.g. 10 years (much wider than the rather dull and stereotypical suggestions someone made on the other thread of 'doctors', 'nurses' and 'teachers')
c) some kind of volunteering aspect (quite problematic)
d) some kind of caring scheme e.g. a grandparent caring for a child can nominate to have someone's student loans partially written off (saves the state a fortune)
e) caring duties get you credits along those lines (caring for parents, grandparents)
f) some combination of the above
g) debt relief in sectors with low pay you want to encourage people to go into e.g. support worker
I would have thought that if they are in well paid jobs they would be in a position to pay back the loans? Same with the successful business owners employing 10 people.
Debt forgiveness should only be an option for those not in a postion to pay it back without help.

Are the loans interest free? If not they should be.
 
OP
SpokeyDokey

SpokeyDokey

Into my 64th
Moderator
Debt forgiveness has existed for donkey's years in America (there's a reason for that :sad:). I do find the debate around tuition fees in America more interesting than here, there sometimes isn't the pretence we have about 'graduate premiums' in this country. The debate in America very widely admitted that not everyone is a winner.

In a world of complete insanity of having £9k fees, if you don't want to tinker much with it, there's a lot to be said of the scheme.

a) on setting up a business
b) some kind of public sector service e.g. 10 years (much wider than the rather dull and stereotypical suggestions someone made on the other thread of 'doctors', 'nurses' and 'teachers')
c) some kind of volunteering aspect (quite problematic)
d) some kind of caring scheme e.g. a grandparent caring for a child can nominate to have someone's student loans partially written off (saves the state a fortune)
e) caring duties get you credits along those lines (caring for parents, grandparents)
f) some combination of the above
g) debt relief in sectors with low pay you want to encourage people to go into e.g. support worker
Yes, I've been thinking about this since I read it and as you say there are other options where the idea could be extended. How workable that is is moot.
 
I would have thought that if they are in well paid jobs they would be in a position to pay back the loans? Same with the successful business owners employing 10 people.
Debt forgiveness should only be an option for those not in a postion to pay it back without help.

Are the loans interest free? If not they should be.
you would have thought, except about 49% of loan burden will be met by the taxpayer because they won't be paid back and yes there is interest on them, the govt uses that to sell blocks of loans to private companies in order to move the debt off govt books, except it really isn't very attractive to most. It is in short, a bit of a con and something of a political hot potato and mess.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Yes, I've been thinking about this since I read it and as you say there are other options where the idea could be extended. How workable that is is moot.
I oppose Jeremy Hunt's idea (floating around elsewhere) if taken literally as the only idea to be implemented, ever. I like the idea if it widens debate on the matter.

Some would say his idea is impractical.
 

Slick

Veteran
I think finally they have realised that university isn't the only option especially for setting up a 10 employee business.
 

Kempstonian

Has the memory of a goldfish
Location
Bedford
I don't know much about student loans (I don't know anybody who has one) but didn't I read some time ago that they don't have to pay them back until they are earning a certain amount?
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
I don't know much about student loans (I don't know anybody who has one) but didn't I read some time ago that they don't have to pay them back until they are earning a certain amount?
There are multiple systems. There have been multiple and often retrospective changes and sometimes some u-turns on those changes.

£18,935 threshold for loans 1998 to 2011
£25,725 (from 25,000, which was itself upped)
£21,000 threshold for postgraduate loans (the new easiest way of clawing back money although 6% not 9%).
£30,737 for anyone on the pre-1998 loans (rather interesting if anyone remembers the chequered history these have had).

in the past the 1998 system for example was £10,000 threshold and kept constant for a long time and caused massive repayment problems. the 1998 to 2011 system had a threshold of £15,000 for many years and frozen for many years (fell in value and more people paid back).

I can't remember whether those figures are last year or this year (just gone past April).

Since the tuition fees have come in there have been all sorts of respected studies on tuition fees saying about how little is paid back and that people were right. Or if you're a politician, little is getting paid back so you better change the goal posts e.g. pay back over 40 years, higher interest etc.

If you look at modelling, the only loan you're likely to payback is the shiny new postgraduate loans.
 
Almost half of student loans are now paid for by the taxpayer – 57 per cent more than two years ago, government forecasts show.

Undergraduates taking out loans in 2018-19 will pay back just 53 per cent themselves, while the remaining 47 per cent will be covered by the public purse, according to official projections.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/28/7billion-bill-astaxpayer-picksup-tab-halfof-student-loans/

On the one hand I disagree with giving people something for nothing, including higher education, but on the other hand this loans business seems not to be working. Perhaps a smaller fee, large enough to make people consider whether University is really for them and thus avoid increasing drop out rates which just waste everybody's time, but easily paid back on an average wage.
 

Kempstonian

Has the memory of a goldfish
Location
Bedford
There are multiple systems. There have been multiple and often retrospective changes and sometimes some u-turns on those changes.

£18,935 threshold for loans 1998 to 2011
£25,725 (from 25,000, which was itself upped)
£21,000 threshold for postgraduate loans (the new easiest way of clawing back money although 6% not 9%).
£30,737 for anyone on the pre-1998 loans (rather interesting if anyone remembers the chequered history these have had).

in the past the 1998 system for example was £10,000 threshold and kept constant for a long time and caused massive repayment problems. the 1998 to 2011 system had a threshold of £15,000 for many years and frozen for many years (fell in value and more people paid back).

I can't remember whether those figures are last year or this year (just gone past April).

Since the tuition fees have come in there have been all sorts of respected studies on tuition fees saying about how little is paid back and that people were right. Or if you're a politician, little is getting paid back so you better change the goal posts e.g. pay back over 40 years, higher interest etc.

If you look at modelling, the only loan you're likely to payback is the shiny new postgraduate loans.
Thanks for the info. All a bit of a mess really, isn't it?
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Thanks for the info. All a bit of a mess really, isn't it?
It is.

Then there's the fun and games the last couple of years where Longitudinal Educational Outcomes (LEO) data, usually in other forms has completely blown out of the water much of what past politicians have said on graduate earnings.
 

pubrunner

Legendary Member
On the one hand I disagree with giving people something for nothing, including higher education, . . .
In my opinion, higher education (up to & including, degree level) should be free, so that it should be accessible by all - regardless of background and income.

I believe that education (up to degree level) and the health system are both things that should be 'free' at source; free, in the sense that recipients should not be directly charged.

I did a degree ages ago and I wasn't charged any fees and the same was true for my parents - why should I expect current and future generations of students to incur significant debts where I didn't ?. If folk are given 'free' higher education, it isn't really 'something for nothing' is it ?, because the return (outcome) for the state, is a more employable workforce - one which is well-equipped to compete with other countries.
 
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lane

Über Member
Not directly answering the question - but if you earn a higher salary you pay 40% tax so you contribute more anyway. In my view that's enough payback really. I would rather see fees reduced for everyone to a more reasonable level. Part of the cost could be met by reducing the fee the university gets. I see no merit in the proposall in this thread.
 
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