YouGov poll re novel suggestion for wiping out some student's debts.

See full question in post...

  • Support

    Votes: 6 31.6%
  • Oppose

    Votes: 13 68.4%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19

johnblack

Senior Member
University is now just a cash cow, there isn't a need for 50% of 18-21 year olds to go, ending up with large debt and a degree that they'll not use. Over 67,000 unconditional offers last year tells you that it's all about quantity over quality. I think the figures also confirm there is a just not the need for the numbers of graduates being churned out. Even in "safe" areas such as Law there are a huge excess of graduates compared to vacancies, because of that employers get to cherry pick the very best from the best universities and can also suppress wages knowing that there are plenty more fish in the sea.

I think the figures also stated that there were over 9,000 people doing Forensic science degrees currently. There are only 5,000 people working in that field in the country and they're not all retiring tomorrow. Universities confirm number of graduates in employment in their prospectus, they do not confirm how many are in employment in the field they studied.

Until numbers reduce, I'm not sure that it's fair to ask for it to be free. Maybe free or reduce in the areas where there is a severe knowledge debt?
 

bikingdad90

Über Member
I’d like to know how many 18year olds actually consider the long term impact of a student loan when going to university?

Many colleges push university as the next step to go onto after A levels as it looks good for the college in question.

If students were aware of the impact on the ability to save for a house due to sometimes large student loan deductions after university I wonder if it would reduce the number of students going to university and those that do been more selective in their choice of degrees?
Maybe there is an educational and social piece to be conveyed?

In regards to the debt reduction why not take a novel approach and scrap interest charges and pay back at cost plus inflation over a shorter time period that is equivalent to the current rates?
 

lane

Über Member
University is now just a cash cow, there isn't a need for 50% of 18-21 year olds to go, ending up with large debt and a degree that they'll not use. Over 67,000 unconditional offers last year tells you that it's all about quantity over quality. I think the figures also confirm there is a just not the need for the numbers of graduates being churned out. Even in "safe" areas such as Law there are a huge excess of graduates compared to vacancies, because of that employers get to cherry pick the very best from the best universities and can also suppress wages knowing that there are plenty more fish in the sea.

I think the figures also stated that there were over 9,000 people doing Forensic science degrees currently. There are only 5,000 people working in that field in the country and they're not all retiring tomorrow. Universities confirm number of graduates in employment in their prospectus, they do not confirm how many are in employment in the field they studied.

Until numbers reduce, I'm not sure that it's fair to ask for it to be free. Maybe free or reduce in the areas where there is a severe knowledge debt?
Free in Scotland but less young people go. I agree that part of reducing the level of fees would be reducing numbers going to university in the first place. Under such a system it would also probably be fair to have some positive discrimination in favour of the disadvantaged.
 

Mr Celine

Discordian
So you need a group of twelve former students. Each one sets up a company employing the other eleven.

So I support the proposal as anyone who can't work this out shouldn't have a degree in the first place.
 
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srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
So you need a group of twelve former students. Each one sets up a company employing the other eleven.

So I support the proposal as anyone who can't work this out shouldn't have a degree in the first place.
I say. I know you can't claim copyright on ideas, but an acknowledgement would be the British thing to do.

It's simple. 10 new graduates set up Student Loan Payoff Ltd with 10 directors - themselves - and 10 employees - themselves. Total cost less than a tenner each.

That'll be £1000 for the consultancy work, please.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
And look at the grade inflation since fees were introduced. Is this to justify the fees?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48951653

I’m sure some students are working harder, but On my course in 1997, out of about 80 students only 1 student got a first. One got a 3rd, the rest were split fairly evenly between 2:1 and 2:2.
Grade/qualification inflation in other ways.

In some subjects more than a quarter of graduates go on to get masters' degrees.

In the last 2-3 years in some subjects it's now a 'thing' to go on about whether it's a pass/merit/distinction. The really bizarre bit is people keep on referring to 'merit' as a '2.1' at masters' level. And questioning whether a pass is worthless :rolleyes::ohmy:.
 
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OP
SpokeyDokey

SpokeyDokey

Into my 64th
Moderator
And look at the grade inflation since fees were introduced. Is this to justify the fees?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48951653

I’m sure some students are working harder, but On my course in 1997, out of about 80 students only 1 student got a first. One got a 3rd, the rest were split fairly evenly between 2:1 and 2:2.
From the link & if correct:

Among those going to university with grades below three Ds at A-level, seven years ago about 40% were awarded the top two grades - and that has risen to above 70%.

That's a very low bar.
 

Mr Celine

Discordian
I say. I know you can't claim copyright on ideas, but an acknowledgement would be the British thing to do.
I hadn't read your post, but my idea was based on an old and very common Working Tax Credit wheeze. Usually involving three single parents each working as a self-employed child minder.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
From the link & if correct:

Among those going to university with grades below three Ds at A-level, seven years ago about 40% were awarded the top two grades - and that has risen to above 70%.

That's a very low bar.
It is very common for CVs in particular subjects. I read a lot of Psychology CVs and it often says something like

B, C, E at A-level. Sometimes CCD or DDD.
2.1 BSc
Pass or Merit at MSc

Althought in 2019 A-levels are irrelevant, it's about as relevant as someone going on about SATs.
 
OP
SpokeyDokey

SpokeyDokey

Into my 64th
Moderator
It is very common for CVs in particular subjects. I read a lot of Psychology CVs and it often says something like

B, C, E at A-level. Sometimes CCD or DDD.
2.1 BSc
Pass or Merit at MSc

Althought in 2019 A-levels are irrelevant, it's about as relevant as someone going on about SATs.
Has something gone wrong somewhere if you achieve 3 D's at A Level and still are capable of an Upper Second?

You're a lot closer to this subject area than me but reading the link a few posts up re grade inflation seems worrying ie devaluing degrees. Is this the case?
 

Milkfloat

An Peanut
Location
Midlands
Has something gone wrong somewhere if you achieve 3 D's at A Level and still are capable of an Upper Second?

You're a lot closer to this subject area than me but reading the link a few posts up re grade inflation seems worrying ie devaluing degrees. Is this the case?
They are all late bloomers or did not spend their entire time at Uni passed out behind the bar?
 

Diogenes

brr, summer's over
Could this be connected to admitting students from poorer areas who have performed (relatively) badly in traditional education despite challenging social circumstances, once in University they find their feet?
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Has something gone wrong somewhere if you achieve 3 D's at A Level and still are capable of an Upper Second?

You're a lot closer to this subject area than me but reading the link a few posts up re grade inflation seems worrying ie devaluing degrees. Is this the case?
As others have said, A-levels are not a close predictor of university success.

Undergraduate degrees were devalued a long time ago in my opinion. I would cite the LEO data about 20% of graduates earning less than £20,000 ten years after uni as evidence of this and a huge variation in outcomes. This is the past, the present is yet to happen (we'll find out some years hence, including the data for the era we're talking about now). I know in the past when you've talked about graduates in their 20s/early 30s you come across they have had a lot of success in terms of material wealth and opportunities.

Psychology is an area that is it's own bubble. There are 30,000+ graduates every year and thousands of MScs added to that figure too. I am interested in future trends and it strikes me that MScs are going to become completely standard in about 5 year's time. The weird thing Psychology of saying you have a '2.1' on your (postgraduate) master's is going to start spreading to other subjects.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
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