Travelling by train, what a rip off!

[Time Waster]

There's an added issue with uk trains, a lot of Europe I believe got their b rail networks effectively rebuilt post war, UK is still victorian in origin so more expensive to maintain no doubt. Plus designed for then not now.

Places in Europe also got a lot of funding to develop rail. I once saw a map of European high speed trains and Greece has a surprisingly good high speed network apparently. No doubt EU funded.

Old networks, inability to complete new infrastructure, no locally owned train manufacturers (AIUI Italian and French companies build them and I think French government pay owns one after subsidies applied against rules EU no doubt), generations of governments of red and blue not investing, foreign owned operating companies or at least part of the partnership operating companies, etc. All things I've read about how incompetently run our rail systems are.

I think we only have channel tunnel to London as truly high speed train route. Greece has a lot more, lot, lot more!

Sorry if this is political but we l let our Victorian built advantage go by not investing in rail. HS2 being reduced then cancelled was just the last bit of incompetence.

Did you know the tunnel link route later called HS1 was built on time and to budget? One of the senior guys who managed that success applied for a job as Head of HS2 team. He had proven success with what was then a very big rail infrastructure project in HS1 but civil servants leading recruitment I heard determined he was not experienced at managing large infrastructure projects! I think they gave it to someone with no experience of rail builds at all!

 

[Electric_Andy]

It's still appalling when I could do it for half that with my Diesel car.

 

[Time Waster]

Ah but have all the costs of your diesel car been taken into account? Pollution costs that is not just running costs? We're all paying for ICE vehicle use.

 

[Paulus]

You need to be careful using the train ticket apps as some short journeys are cheaper direct from the train operators.

Indeed, you can buy almost any ticket from any Train operating company for any journey normally with no booking fee.
Apps like the trainline usually have a booking fee, even if you have an e-ticket, pick it up from a local station or print ot yourself.

 

[Cycleops]

It's still appalling when I could do it for half that with my Diesel car.

Assume that's for fuel cost, not surprising. Does car allow you to read and have a snooze on the journey

 

[Electric_Andy]

Ah but have all the costs of your diesel car been taken into account? Pollution costs that is not just running costs? We're all paying for ICE vehicle use.

Admittedly no. But that's not how people travel. To get people on trains and out of cars, I highly doubt if most would be totting up the "pollution costs" when they're choosing between a train ticket for £280 or thinking of filling up the car for £100.

 

[BrumJim]

Admittedly no. But that's not how people travel. To get people on trains and out of cars, I highly doubt if most would be totting up the "pollution costs" when they're choosing between a train ticket for £280 or thinking of filling up the car for £100.

They should. I think that is part of the problem, in that accidentally, during the "war on motorists" that the government is conducting, they have forgotten to increase fuel duty since 2011, so no longer gets close to covering the cost (externalities) of pollution.

Also there is the fundamental economics of the fact that you haven't factored in fixed costs and other non-fuel mileage costs. Arguably, once you have decided to buy a car, it is a household expense that is unrelated to the motoring costs of travellling. I was without a car for a while, and worked out that hiring a car was more economical as long as I didn't use it more than once a fortnight. However the convenience of having one outside my front door won in the end, and I bought another.
Of course the railway can't ignore the fixed cost, so adds this to your ticket.

My big gripe is how much money is being spent on arguing whose fault each delay is, trying to manage the interfaces between the various companies, and train operators paying vast amounts of money to win bids to carry on operating the service. And then losing out to companies that are better at making up lies than they are.

 

[Chromatic]

Have you seen how much rail staff earn, it's no wonder the ticket prices are eye watering, and it's not like you are liable to get a job with any of them unless someone already working for them puts you forward for a job

This. My wife's brother has worked on the railway, I've heard the stories.

 

[Time Waster]

Admittedly no. But that's not how people travel. To get people on trains and out of cars, I highly doubt if most would be totting up the "pollution costs" when they're choosing between a train ticket for £280 or thinking of filling up the car for £100.

No but there should be more encouragement to not go by Gas guzzler by increased train incentives. Either more costs on cars or less on trains I guess.

 

[BrumJim]

This. My wife's brother has worked on the railway, I've heard the stories.

Caused by? Privitisation, believe it or not. However a bit more complex:

1. RMT generally represent the station workers, who are not well paid.
2. ASLEF generally represent the drivers, who have been paid fantastic amounts of money, and are notoriously tetchy, refusing to take trains out because the ash tray hasn't been emptied (hyperbole, for those concerned with smoking in the office). However it is not possible to cut their pay tomorrow to something fairer, and prospective train operators don't seem to appreciate that trains only operate with their goodwill.

 

[wiggydiggy]

I travel a lot by train, you have to learnt to play the system to get the best deals. I sometimes buy a ticket that is longer than the journey I actually want as I can get an Advance Fare between two major stations for less than what I want - just beware with an Advance Fare you can end your journey early, but you can not break it and re board so when you get off be sure you do want to finish there!

Railcards can also help, I use a TwoTogther card which gives 30% off all off peak fares, its only £30 and ours paid for itself after only 3 or 4 trips.

Rail travel in the UK isn't ideal, but its better than some other places I've been. You just need to learn the tricks to maximise the savings.

Flying Scotsman at NYM in York.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

It's still appalling when I could do it for half that with my Diesel car.

Just shows how much cars are subsidised and you don’t pay the true costs.

 

[Cycleops]

If you're older and use trains quite a lot you can get great deals as @wiggydiggy says and has been proved on here.
I only come to the UK for a few weeks a year and it's still worthwhile getting a senior card.

 

[albion]

Have you tried split tickets? https://splitticketing.com/

Transport For Wales is always the culprit. I can get from Newport to Exeter for less than a tenner single. Yet at train from Rhyl to Newport is £27 or more. (Seniir Railcard prices)

I suppose there is still a massive saving, especially with a drive to Newport or Bristol.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

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