Iorek
Active Member
- Location
- God's Own County
Hello,
I am a commuter more than a cyclist. 90% of my riding is a 22km round trip commute or/near main road, which I do pretty much all year long, no matter the weather (annual mileage is about 3000 km). I live in West Yorkshire, which means that the weather is often crap and everywhere is uphill. The other 10% are good weather, week-long trips in Europe, often with kids, always in full pannier heavy mode, plus occasional rides around home (maximum day trips, almost no overnighters). I love this 10% very much and most of my free time is spent daydreaming about where to go and how to ride.
For the last 4 years, I've ridden a custom 2020 Genesis TdF 20 M with Denham bars, which my LBS built for me from a frameset. I am a single bike person, so my TdF was purchased as an everything machine - go to York for a day or to Kyrgystan for a month. Even though the latter is pretty much not going to happen, the bike is inspirational (just like wearing an expedition rain jacket on a walk to town). It just makes me feel good to know that it can handle everything I am realistically going to throw at it.
Recently, I started to wonder whether I should use my bike to work scheme to get a new bike. The TdF now looks a bit rusty and tired, and this gives me an excuse to reconsider the type of bike given the actual (good surface commuting and day trips) vs inspirational (a month in Kyrgystan) use and/or to update the bike with more modern components (electronic group sets? also possibility of fitting Rohloff would be nice) or materials (steel is indeed real, but carbon is now relatively affordable). So here is my current thinking.
Important requirements:
- must take rear rack
- should have kickstand mount, ideally on chainstay
- must have full mudguards mounts
- must have no toe overlap
- must be comfortable (think audax, not upright but not hardcore road), main use is good surface roads, with some load
- ideally under £2k or not much more above
Nice haves: possibility to mount Rohloff, hidden cables, through axles, dynamo lights, electronic groupsets, carbon
Not important: fat tyres (42+), tubeless, drop bars, super light weight (I don't mind carrying 2 or 4kg more, it's not significant in the grand scheme of things (although I am relatively light)).
Choice #0 Do not do anything. Enjoy the ride as usual. Upgrade components as they become worn out.
#1 Classic solution 1: Genesis TdF 20 2023 https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/genesis-tour-de-fer-20-vargn22420
advantages: tried geometry, confirmed no toe overlap, kickstand on chainstay, nothing to add out of the box
disadvantages: QR, rear triangle not good for Rohloff (I've checked - I don't want to use monkeybone)
price: ~£1700 (or ~£2100 for TdF 30)
Notes: I find my TdF very comfortable and like this sort of frame geometry (more sporty than a classic tourer apparently) very much. But I have not ridden many bikes in my life so it's difficult to compare this to anything. I find TdF noticeably more comfortable than CdF.
Classic solution 2: Kona Sutra SE https://www.konaworld.com/en-eu/products/sutra-se
A: through-axle, extra mounting points on frame, potentially good for Rohloff
D: no kickstand on chainstay (but potentially good for central plate)
price: ~£1550 (but could be had for ~£1350)
Notes: nowhere to try it.
#2 Fancy solution: Orro Terra C / Boardman ADV 9* / Canyon Grizl CF SL 6
https://www.orrobikes.com/product/terra-c-apex-1x
https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/products/2394-adv-9.2.html
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/gravel.../3696.html?dwvar_3696_pv_rahmenfarbe=R095_P11
A: carbon, electronic groupset in Canyon and Boardman, price for the cheapest Orro, Orro has standard rack mounts on rear stays
D: no kickstand mount (can it be mounted on carbon frame at all?), not suitable for pannier touring, press-fit BB, Canyon and Boardman require Tailfin-type rack solutions
price: £1500 for the cheapest Orro Terra C (Apex 1x12) (next one up is £2100) - this was the main impulse to write this post,
£2000 for Boardman 9.0 Road (R7100 105 2x12, I think it has the best groupset for intended use),
~£2300 for Boardman 9.2 or Canyon Grizl CF SL 6 (both on electronic XPLR AXS 1x12),
Notes: they are all very similar, sporty gravel bikes on carbon. I am however thinking of using them mostly if not exclusively as audax/comfortable good surface bikes for my occasional rides and commute. Probably not for pannier touring. Of these models, Orro is in my LBS and Boardman should be in the nearest Halfords. The main point of these bikes to me is the new XPLR AXS 1x12 to try along the carbon (or get the relatively cheap Orro for the frame and upgrade later if needed). This choice would make me keep the TdF for heavy load touring; Boardman appears to have no mudguards mounts I think? Hidden cables are very nice...
#3 Have cake and eat cake solution: Fairlight Secan or Faran
https://fairlightcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Fairlight-Faran-2.5-Design-Notes-Live.pdf
A: pretty steel, inner cabling for lights, through-axle (potentially good for Rohloff)
D: price (for the price of Secan I can get full carbon gravel with 1x12 electronic gears; or, even better, the cheapest steel touring bike on Rohloff for £2650), no kickstand mounts on chainstays (but potentially good for central plate), nowhere to try it.
price: £2000 for the cheapest Faran, £2600 for the cheapest Secan (both GRX600 2x); add £350 for SON dynamo light upgrade
Note: these have very good reviews online. They are expensive even though seem worth the price. Reviews say they are both sporty geometries, but I slightly worry about relatively short chainstays and wheelbase (compared to TdF or Kona) and a couple of comments online mentioning that Faran with only back panniers is a bit twitchy.
My current leanings are TdF, Faran or Orro, in this order, but they are all quite close together and I can easily justify every one over the others in my mind :-). Any thoughts and comments? I understand that you can't make the choice for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , but if I miss anything that you think I should consider to bring me closer to the decision, let me know.
IO
I am a commuter more than a cyclist. 90% of my riding is a 22km round trip commute or/near main road, which I do pretty much all year long, no matter the weather (annual mileage is about 3000 km). I live in West Yorkshire, which means that the weather is often crap and everywhere is uphill. The other 10% are good weather, week-long trips in Europe, often with kids, always in full pannier heavy mode, plus occasional rides around home (maximum day trips, almost no overnighters). I love this 10% very much and most of my free time is spent daydreaming about where to go and how to ride.
For the last 4 years, I've ridden a custom 2020 Genesis TdF 20 M with Denham bars, which my LBS built for me from a frameset. I am a single bike person, so my TdF was purchased as an everything machine - go to York for a day or to Kyrgystan for a month. Even though the latter is pretty much not going to happen, the bike is inspirational (just like wearing an expedition rain jacket on a walk to town). It just makes me feel good to know that it can handle everything I am realistically going to throw at it.
Recently, I started to wonder whether I should use my bike to work scheme to get a new bike. The TdF now looks a bit rusty and tired, and this gives me an excuse to reconsider the type of bike given the actual (good surface commuting and day trips) vs inspirational (a month in Kyrgystan) use and/or to update the bike with more modern components (electronic group sets? also possibility of fitting Rohloff would be nice) or materials (steel is indeed real, but carbon is now relatively affordable). So here is my current thinking.
Important requirements:
- must take rear rack
- should have kickstand mount, ideally on chainstay
- must have full mudguards mounts
- must have no toe overlap
- must be comfortable (think audax, not upright but not hardcore road), main use is good surface roads, with some load
- ideally under £2k or not much more above
Nice haves: possibility to mount Rohloff, hidden cables, through axles, dynamo lights, electronic groupsets, carbon
Not important: fat tyres (42+), tubeless, drop bars, super light weight (I don't mind carrying 2 or 4kg more, it's not significant in the grand scheme of things (although I am relatively light)).
Choice #0 Do not do anything. Enjoy the ride as usual. Upgrade components as they become worn out.
#1 Classic solution 1: Genesis TdF 20 2023 https://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/genesis-tour-de-fer-20-vargn22420
advantages: tried geometry, confirmed no toe overlap, kickstand on chainstay, nothing to add out of the box
disadvantages: QR, rear triangle not good for Rohloff (I've checked - I don't want to use monkeybone)
price: ~£1700 (or ~£2100 for TdF 30)
Notes: I find my TdF very comfortable and like this sort of frame geometry (more sporty than a classic tourer apparently) very much. But I have not ridden many bikes in my life so it's difficult to compare this to anything. I find TdF noticeably more comfortable than CdF.
Classic solution 2: Kona Sutra SE https://www.konaworld.com/en-eu/products/sutra-se
A: through-axle, extra mounting points on frame, potentially good for Rohloff
D: no kickstand on chainstay (but potentially good for central plate)
price: ~£1550 (but could be had for ~£1350)
Notes: nowhere to try it.
#2 Fancy solution: Orro Terra C / Boardman ADV 9* / Canyon Grizl CF SL 6
https://www.orrobikes.com/product/terra-c-apex-1x
https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/products/2394-adv-9.2.html
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/gravel.../3696.html?dwvar_3696_pv_rahmenfarbe=R095_P11
A: carbon, electronic groupset in Canyon and Boardman, price for the cheapest Orro, Orro has standard rack mounts on rear stays
D: no kickstand mount (can it be mounted on carbon frame at all?), not suitable for pannier touring, press-fit BB, Canyon and Boardman require Tailfin-type rack solutions
price: £1500 for the cheapest Orro Terra C (Apex 1x12) (next one up is £2100) - this was the main impulse to write this post,
£2000 for Boardman 9.0 Road (R7100 105 2x12, I think it has the best groupset for intended use),
~£2300 for Boardman 9.2 or Canyon Grizl CF SL 6 (both on electronic XPLR AXS 1x12),
Notes: they are all very similar, sporty gravel bikes on carbon. I am however thinking of using them mostly if not exclusively as audax/comfortable good surface bikes for my occasional rides and commute. Probably not for pannier touring. Of these models, Orro is in my LBS and Boardman should be in the nearest Halfords. The main point of these bikes to me is the new XPLR AXS 1x12 to try along the carbon (or get the relatively cheap Orro for the frame and upgrade later if needed). This choice would make me keep the TdF for heavy load touring; Boardman appears to have no mudguards mounts I think? Hidden cables are very nice...
#3 Have cake and eat cake solution: Fairlight Secan or Faran
https://fairlightcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Fairlight-Faran-2.5-Design-Notes-Live.pdf
A: pretty steel, inner cabling for lights, through-axle (potentially good for Rohloff)
D: price (for the price of Secan I can get full carbon gravel with 1x12 electronic gears; or, even better, the cheapest steel touring bike on Rohloff for £2650), no kickstand mounts on chainstays (but potentially good for central plate), nowhere to try it.
price: £2000 for the cheapest Faran, £2600 for the cheapest Secan (both GRX600 2x); add £350 for SON dynamo light upgrade
Note: these have very good reviews online. They are expensive even though seem worth the price. Reviews say they are both sporty geometries, but I slightly worry about relatively short chainstays and wheelbase (compared to TdF or Kona) and a couple of comments online mentioning that Faran with only back panniers is a bit twitchy.
My current leanings are TdF, Faran or Orro, in this order, but they are all quite close together and I can easily justify every one over the others in my mind :-). Any thoughts and comments? I understand that you can't make the choice for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , but if I miss anything that you think I should consider to bring me closer to the decision, let me know.
IO