Drink driving ban

[PaulB]

I think she is lying. That amount of alcohol in your blood is significant. Alcoholics have a tendency to 'forget' how much they are drinking. I am afraid that my sympathy level is zero - another potential killer removed from the roads - good riddance.

Quite possibly. Unless Marin is correct, my suspicions are that she's pulling the wool over quite a few eyes as well.

 

[slinky malinky]

Funny how when ever you stop a driver smell drink on them and they say 'no officer i have only had a pint' yeah right, back at the station blows 100 mg.
Strange how peoples attitudes change when it comes to drink drivers, any legal loop hole appears to be fair if you can get away with it, Rather than making excuses for this person thank god she didn't kill a member of your family, why assume the machine is faulty could it be the woman was drunk and deserves everything coming, one less on the road result.

 

[wafflycat]

I don't think anyone is assuming the machine is faulty or making excuses for the woman. Indeed if she was *accurately* over the DD limit as far as I'm concerned she should not be allowed to drive a motor again - ever. I *loathe* DD'ers with a vengeance.

However, if the woman is being truthful about the amount of alcohol she consumed, surely a blood test would either confirm her innocence or confirm the breath-test readings.

 

[Noodley]

Should the woman have a medical condition then a blood test at any time would indicate the medical condition, unless of course it was a short term condition which only happened when she was asked to provide a breath test.

As it stands she will now have to go to court, and evidence will be given by both the Police and her defence solicitor. I would say it does not look as if she is going to have too much of a defence unless she gets medical tests carried out and they show some medical condition which would cause her to have a high level of alcohol in her breath.

See Section 6 of the RTA 1988 for circumstances requiring a breath test.

 

[Noodley]

Funny how when ever you stop a driver smell drink on them and they say 'no officer i have only had a pint' yeah right, back at the station blows 100 mg.

I always used to think that I was being sold short when I ordered a pint in the pub after hearing the 'I've only had a pint' story so many times!

And as an aside - one of my cats 'pedigree' name is Slinky Malinki

 

[Jonathan M]

The Nurse can always apply for a position that doesnt involve driving so may not be 'lost' as a scarce resource. (Provided that the offence doesnt effect her Registration - which I think is unlikely unless the police have made an NMC notification that calls in to question her fitness to practice)

I have a feeling that if a nurse is convicted of drunk driving (plus other convictions & cautions not just where fitness to practice comes under scrutiny, but also where the nurse is deemed not to have adhered to The Code, which includes quite clearly that a nurse (as an individual) "must uphold the reputation of the profession") then the legal system is duty bound to inform the Nursing & Midwifery Council of the conviction or caution.

The NMC always seems to set quite high standards, there is a general feeling within the nursing profession that nurses will loose thier jobs & registrations in situations that medics will not. Perhaps this is becuase the NMC Fitness to Practice panels are made up not just of nurses, but of lay people, therefore widening the opinions of people about the actions of the nurse & the decision that should be taken. The GMC hearings are solely medics policing medics, a policy which I believe they are reviewing, as sometimes the outcome seems to favour the professional, albeit with some restrictions.


As an aside, I had to report a newly employed colleague once because I was concerned that she was drunk on duty (I'm a nurse). She was, and it turned out that the managers who had employed her were not fully aware that she had a history of alcohol abuse. She worked the grand total of one shift, as she was incapable of performing the most basic of nursing care, and this was from someone with many years of experience. I understood that she'd been allowed to leave her previous job because of being drunk on duty, but her ex-employers chose not to notify the NMC. Our Trust did notify the NMC. Her name was removed from the register, and one of our managers who knew her personally and was aware of her history was encouraged to retire due to her serious lapse in judgement in supporting her emplyment.

I feel exceedingly sorry for the person in question, but unless she can prove otherwise she was 1) driving with excess alcohol 2) working as a registered children's nurse with excess alcohol. Whether it made a difference to her ability to perform her job is unknown, but it may highlight a more significant problem (secret alcohol abuse problem) that she may be able to get support for.

 

[Davidc]

I don't know the individuals so look at this as just another case of alcohol abuse.

I'd need a lot of convincing that she hadn't drunk more than she said, and I'd hope that there would be an investigation into her competence in her job as that's a high breath alcohol level for a nurse on duty. I wouln't want to be attended to medically by someone with a blood alcohol level above the drink drive limit.

While I'm glad to see a drink driver off the roads, and would like to be sure that she is monitored to ensure she's fully sober while nursing, at least no one has been killed or injured this time. I would never advocate being unpleasant towards someone in this nurses situation, but I consider sympathy and the search for ways to get off the charge to be seriously misminded.

Perhaps this will benefit her in the long term by pushing her to seek and accept help before there's a disaster at work, a car collision or a serious health issue with liver disease etc.

 

[Mortiroloboy]

Quite possibly. Unless Marin is correct, my suspicions are that she's pulling the wool over quite a few eyes as well.

We had the misfortune to live next door to an alcoholic (until she finally) drank herself to death, alcoholics lie, they lie to themselves and, they lie to others.

On the matter of the road side breath kits, I cannot see a situation where two kits would be faulty, they are calibrated regularly, in any case they only give an indication of a presence of alcohol on the breath. the evidential machine at the police station is the one that gives the print out which is used in the court file, and which supports the charge.

Blood samples would be taken at a hospital known as (The hospital procedure) by a qualified Doctor, and would be taken for example if the suspect was unable to give a specimen of breath for whatever reason, usualy as a result of an injury sustained in a drink drive related road traffic collision, or because they were too intoxicated to provide a specimen of breath.

I cannot remember the exact figures for the rate that alcohol dissipates from the blood, but it would not be possible (I believe) for a person to provide a positive specimen of breath after the length of time we are told had passed between the two glasses of wine being consumed, and the incident which resulted in the nurse giving a Positive beath test.

 

[GrasB]

I know of someone who could have got caught like this. He had a nice evening out with a few friends during which he consumed 2 "medium" glasses of red & took a taxi home the previous night. Got in his car in the morning & found to be over the limit, much to his surprise. Thankfully this guy had used a personal breath alcohol tester kit before he drove away so again got a taxi to work & back.

I personally get the impression glasses of wine in restaurants & pubs are getting bigger which means no one really knows how much they are drinking in the first place.

 

[661-Pete]

I think the Police can draw on information about all the circumstances which can interfere with breath tests. I know that inhaled medicines like Salbutamol are an issue, which concerns me: if I were ever breathalysed I would certainly inform the Police at once, before being tested, if I had recently used the inhaler and how long before. But apparently the influence diminishes to an insignificant level after only a few minutes, so I would probably be OK.

So, assuming that in this case, all possible mitigating circumstances have been considered and set aside (and if this woman believes that anything has been overlooked, she should get legal advice at once) - then we are left with the amount of alcohol intake in the previous 24 hours, and the metabolism rate. Both of these are uncertainties.

I'm afraid I conclude that there is only one golden rule. If your job, or your personal circumstances, imply that you may have to drive any time, never put yourself over the limit by alcohol intake. A 'safe' amount for most people would be two units but do not rely on it! Note that I am talking about the limiting amount you can drink at any time, not merely at a time just before you drive. This woman is a nurse who has to drive as part of her job. Social drinking to a risky level is not on, for her.

Two glasses of wine? A most unreliable measure: I have no idea how much a 'glass' is (at least with beer you know it's a pint or half-pint - or some metric equivalent). Many wines nowadays are 14%ABV, so about 140 ml (1/4 pint or one-fifth of a standard bottle) would give you your two units.

 

[marinyork]

We had the misfortune to live next door to an alcoholic (until she finally) drank herself to death, alcoholics lie, they lie to themselves and, they lie to others.

On the matter of the road side breath kits, I cannot see a situation where two kits would be faulty, they are calibrated regularly, in any case they only give an indication of a presence of alcohol on the breath. the evidential machine at the police station is the one that gives the print out which is used in the court file, and which supports the charge.

Blood samples would be taken at a hospital known as (The hospital procedure) by a qualified Doctor, and would be taken for example if the suspect was unable to give a specimen of breath for whatever reason, usualy as a result of an injury sustained in a drink drive related road traffic collision, or because they were too intoxicated to provide a specimen of breath.

It's not a case of me being correct. I don't dispute the reading - although it would have been nice to have reading of what the much more accurate machine at the station said and a blood test.

As to what noodley said. There is one flaw in the regs, for people that don't know about pre-existing conditions.

I cannot remember the exact figures for the rate that alcohol dissipates from the blood, but it would not be possible (I believe) for a person to provide a positive specimen of breath after the length of time we are told had passed between the two glasses of wine being consumed, and the incident which resulted in the nurse giving a Positive beath test.

I disagree, saying something is not possible (aka impossible) is too strong a qualification. If you do the sums and add in a medical condition, it is just about plausible. That's at the extreme end of the scale though and it seems unlikely.

 

[slinky malinky]

The person whilst in custody would have been allowed access to legal or independant advice, although this would not be allowed to hinder the investigation (this avoids any time delay in getting the station procedure completed) you are quite right her defence solicitor will no doubt question the reading if she is telling the truth, I await the case law being published if she is found to have a medical condition which has meant she has either the ability to produce alcohol in her body or the machine, which double checks itself prior to each sample given is found to be at fault.

 

[Davidc]

I personally get the impression glasses of wine in restaurants & pubs are getting bigger which means no one really knows how much they are drinking in the first place.

They are. It's well documented and has been flagged as a cause for concern in the binge drinking debate. Some are now 250ml, 1/3 of a bottle in each glass and double the standard size used for the unit per glass approximation.

I have to be careful of that because I drink wine, and one of the medicines I take roughly doubles the time taken to break alcohol down. (I was told that the alternative is to drink loads of water afterwards and flush it out but wouldn't want to rely on that for driving!)

 

[marinyork]

They are. It's well documented and has been flagged as a cause for concern in the binge drinking debate. Some are now 250ml, 1/3 of a bottle in each glass and double the standard size used for the unit per glass approximation.

I have to be careful of that because I drink wine, and one of the medicines I take roughly doubles the time taken to break alcohol down. (I was told that the alternative is to drink loads of water afterwards and flush it out but wouldn't want to rely on that for driving!)

That is what I took as my assumptions when I first read this thread. That the woman drank 2 glasses of wine at 14% and they were 250ml.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

why did the police treat her differently because she is a nurse? if her colleagues couldn't smell her even tho she was nearly twice the legal limit, was she covering up her addiction? one of my friends is a recovering alcoholic (2 years dry) and has told some of the ways he and other alcoholics cover up their addictions (revealed during open / closed meetings). he says that professionals appear (confessed during meetings) to be the most secretive due to the fact that they have most to lose. he says he has met during meetings some extremely important local people (has never told me who tho) who the locals wouldn't believe even if they were told.