E Scooters > on the road

[Blue Hills]

Worrabout E-Brommies? Can you take them on London's trainage?

From the knowledgeable ianvisits (train nerd and esteemed sampler of interesting london stuff)
>>The ban will apply to all e-scooters and e-unicycles, but does not include mobility scooters that are permitted on the network or e-bikes. TfL says that e-bikes are generally subject to better manufacturing standards and the batteries are usually positioned in a place where they are less likely to be damaged, and so are less of a fire risk.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

As I have banged on about before - if the government had got their act in gear a long time ago - they could have realised that small electric personal transport devices were always going to come along
Therefore they should have regulated them many years ago - rather than just go with something for ebikes (which got merged into the EU version in 2016) and let the rest default into legislation for mopeds!

Personally I reckon it should be based on stopping ability
therefore
Hoverboards and the like have no handlebars and hence if they try to stop FAST - the rider just shoots forward - hence stopping ability is rubbish - hence lower power maximum and lower cutoff speed (dunno - 7-8 mph??)

escooters - handlebars so can stop pretty quick - so similar to ebike - 15 mph maybe

but also include manoevering and ability on rougher roads - so maybe wheel size comes into it
so some e-scooters would be 10 mph (small wheels) and some would be the same as ebikes - slightly bigger wheels and chunky tyres

After that you are just left with how people ride - and that is all sorted

At the end of the day you will always get nutters who ride on the pavement and think everyone else should get out of their way.
They have always done it on bikes - now they are the same type of people they are just using an escooter instead - if they are regulated then you would be able to restrict their sale a bit better!

maybe - unless maybe the cops are over pushed and don;t have time to enforce it all!

 

[Drago]

I may be slightly atypical in terms of dimensions and mass, but you can take it from me when I tell you that I've tried it and theres no way on Gods green Earth that a normal mortal in the normal scheme of things can stop an e scooter anywhere near as quickly as an ebike.

 

[captain nemo1701]

I may be slightly atypical in terms of dimensions and mass, but you can take it from me when I tell you that I've tried it and theres no way on Gods green Earth that a normal mortal in the normal scheme of things can stop an e scooter anywhere near as quickly as an ebike.

If you look at the geometry, it strikes me that escooterists are mainly forward of a centre line and are more likely to topple forwards due to the weight of the steering column, the handlebars and themselves standing towards the front. Escooters, unlike bikes where the rider sits more central, seem to me to be more front-loaded. For example, they don't have things like panniers at the rear which counteract and forward weight (standby for cycle geometry specialists..).

BTW Saturday, Bristol. Saw woman with four large Primark shopping bags trying to ride an escooter...d'oh!.

 

[Drago]

If you look at the geometry, it strikes me that escooterists are mainly forward of a centre line and are more likely to topple forwards due to the weight of the steering column, the handlebars and themselves standing towards the front. Escooters, unlike bikes where the rider sits more central, seem to me to be more front-loaded. For example, they don't have things like panniers at the rear which counteract and forward weight (standby for cycle geometry specialists..).

BTW Saturday, Bristol. Saw woman with four large Primark shopping bags trying to ride an escooter...d'oh!.

Very much so. And with a pivot point only 2 or 3 inches from the floor, at roughly level with the soles of their feet so all their mass is above.

 

[Blue Hills]

question - since these things are I understand illegal on public roads if private - if a car or other vehicle was in collision with one of these things, would that act in the car driver's favour with regard to any blame, legal consequences etc? Even if the car driver's driving was less than perfect?

 

[Solocle]

Is there anyone here that has one or has ridden one? I imagine you have to have your wits about you on potholed roads.

I'd love one. They look like lots of fun, but to my mind there's no point in owning one if they're illegal to use. Not tried a hire one though as I generally try to avoid towns. If responsibly used I think they could be an excellent local transport solution (rather like bikes and e-bikes). We would need to change our attitudes towards each other and towards shared space so they were more like what they have in Holland.

I think someone else nailed it earlier when saying that dinging your bell needs to be seen as "I'm here" rather than "get out the way". I find myself reluctant to use cycle paths because of clueless pedestrians with headphones and dog-walkers. But it seems that instead of nudging us towards "thinking about each other's welfare" society is going the opposite way and permitting people to use these scooters and flout the law. (That's what I object to, not the scooters themselves.)

I've used the hire ones.

my criticism - they're not fast enough. The ones in BCP are limited to 12.5 mph. That makes some of the big roundabouts around here awfully sketchy, and the treatment you get from motorists... frankly they treat cyclists like royalty by comparison!

I think the e-scooters should be limited to 20 mph, and up the e-bike speed limit to that too. It would mean that you could actually keep up with traffic (at least in theory) in 20 limits, it would be easier to navigate junctions, and just generally be more obviously a road vehicle.

That still offers some differentiation from 45 kph mopeds.

 

[Bazzer]

The other day I happened to be in Curry's. Judging from the stack near the points of sale, they clearly see them as a big pre or post Christmas seller.

 

[classic33]

I've used the hire ones.

my criticism - they're not fast enough. The ones in BCP are limited to 12.5 mph. That makes some of the big roundabouts around here awfully sketchy, and the treatment you get from motorists... frankly they treat cyclists like royalty by comparison!

I think the e-scooters should be limited to 20 mph, and up the e-bike speed limit to that too. It would mean that you could actually keep up with traffic (at least in theory) in 20 limits, it would be easier to navigate junctions, and just generally be more obviously a road vehicle.

That still offers some differentiation from 45 kph mopeds.

An E bike can be just as fast as any other type of motorbike. You want to go faster on an e-assist bike, pedal.

 

[vickster]

20mph legal limit for e scooters?!! Lunacy as they will be used on pavements and paths whatever the rules. Look at the level of illegal use now.

If someone wants to do more than 20 mph on two wheels on a road, get a motorbike or pedal faster.

I had to politely ask a woman on one to get out the way yesterday. She was going very slowly weaving around in CS7 yesterday and seemed baffled when I said she shouldn’t actually be on the road on it.

The retailers pay simply no heed to their responsibility to inform purchasers of the current law

 

[CanucksTraveller]

Is there anyone here that has one or has ridden one? I imagine you have to have your wits about you on potholed roads.

Yes another hire scheme user here, I use them a lot in Germany, usually the "Tier" company's. They're really excellent for those journeys where you might have been tempted to use a taxi, those in between distances of a mile or two. It works out about 3 to 6 euros for 1 to 2 miles, or about the third the cost of a taxi.
I've found them easy to ride although in Germany there are cycle lanes everywhere of course, so that makes the whole thing far more bearable and clear cut as to where you should be. And those lanes aren't really potholed. You can in fact get quite a sore back and wrists eventually, thanks to them having no real give when you do inevitably have to go over dropped kerbs etc, but bending the knees and lightening one's grip does help.

 

[Badger_Boom]

question - since these things are I understand illegal on public roads if private - if a car or other vehicle was in collision with one of these things, would that act in the car driver's favour with regard to any blame, legal consequences etc? Even if the car driver's driving was less than perfect?

I'm no lawyer but I'd like to think that the legality of the rider's choice of mount would not be taken into account where poor driving was considered the main factor. You might as well say that a child who plays truant from school was to blame for being knocked down by a bad driver because 'they shouldn't have been there'.

Take a look at social media for all the terrifying discussions about it being okay or 'legal' in some road user's opinion to knock another road user down if they were 'in the wrong'.

 

[classic33]

I'm no lawyer but I'd like to think that the legality of the rider's choice of mount would not be taken into account where poor driving was considered the main factor. You might as well say that a child who plays truant from school was to blame for being knocked down by a bad driver because 'they shouldn't have been there'.

Take a look at social media for all the terrifying discussions about it being okay or 'legal' in some road user's opinion to knock another road user down if they were 'in the wrong'.

If you were the driver of a vehicle, that was illegal to use on the road in an accident, why should you get off free?

 

[Badger_Boom]

If you were the driver of a vehicle, that was illegal to use on the road in an accident, why should you get off free?

That's a separate matter. If I knock down and kill or maim an illegal scooterist becuiase I'm texting and eating a BK Flamer (other travel foods are available), should I escape escape justice because he shouldn't be on the road?

 

[captain nemo1701]

The other day I happened to be in Curry's. Judging from the stack near the points of sale, they clearly see them as a big pre or post Christmas seller.

A certain well known car accessory chain wants to hold a 'debate' on legalisation ie. since they want to flog & profit from them.