Landis 'fesses up?!

[Flying_Monkey]

Really? I'm gonna have a heart attack and die of not surprised. That must be why the Tour greats, and other top athletes, have nicknames like "nice guy eddy", rather than "the cannibal", "the animal" or "the badger".

I am not talking about his attitude to winning, as well you know; I am talking about his attitude to people in the peloton who speak out on drugs. As I said, you seem to ignore almost everything that contradicts your chosen view on Lance. We know he hasn't failed an official drugs test, but we also know what he has done to others who have spoken out, and we also know that he has failed at least one retrospective test for a substance for which there were not regular tests at the time (which of course is not an official test). And we also know that a lot of people associated with him have made quite substantial claims about his practices, rather too many IMHO for it to be just a result of bitterness or jealousy or anything else.

 

[rich p]

I'm not sure where you get this perception of anti-American bias, Greg. We, in general on here, had massive but unproven doubts about Ricco, Basso, Sella, Contador, Vino, Valverde, Rasmussen, Piepoli.....ad nauseam, none of whom are American. The evidence against them is either compelling but not proven, circumstantial, non-existant but fishy throughout the spectrum.
In fact most of us thought Tyler Hamilton was clean and courageous and applauded Landis for a wonderfully gutsy fightback on Stage 17!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I'm not sure where you get this perception of anti-American bias, Greg. We, in general on here, had massive but unproven doubts about Ricco, Basso, Sella, Contador, Vino, Valverde, Rasmussen, Piepoli.....ad nauseam, none of whom are American. The evidence against them is either compelling but not proven, circumstantial, non-existant but fishy throughout the spectrum.
In fact most of us thought Tyler Hamilton was clean and courageous and applauded Landis for a wonderfully gutsy fightback on Stage 17!

Yeah, exactly. Greg is just parroting the official line of the Cult of Lance.

 

[Crankarm]

I am not talking about his attitude to winning, as well you know; I am talking about his attitude to people in the peloton who speak out on drugs. As I said, you seem to ignore almost everything that contradicts your chosen view on Lance. We know he hasn't failed an official drugs test, but we also know what he has done to others who have spoken out, and we also know that he has failed at least one retrospective test for a substance for which there were not regular tests at the time (which of course is not an official test). And we also know that a lot of people associated with him have made quite substantial claims about his practices, rather too many IMHO for it to be just a result of bitterness or jealousy or anything else.

You've got your finger firmly on the gossip button . You seem to know an awful lot of stuff about LA, what he has done, what he hasn't done ............. I suspect you might have been stalking him . Unless of course you are relying on 3rd, 4th or 5th person accounts of what is alleged to have happened or not?

 

[rich p]

With regard to the supposed pay-off to the UCI, did anyone ever satisfactorily explain why LA donated $20K(?) to McQuaid last year?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schenk-uci-needs-more-transparency

Sorry, I meant $100K Well, that's cleared that up then

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Unless of course you are relying on 3rd, 4th or 5th person accounts of what is alleged to have happened or not?

2nd mostly - but that's the same way we find out about anything in pro-cycling, isn't it? Lots of backtracking by the UCI today BTW, saying it was a 'mistake' to accept Lance's donation and asking for investigations of four people named by Landis...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstrong-donation-a-mistake

 

[GrumpyGregry]

In fact most of us thought Tyler Hamilton was clean and courageous and applauded Landis for a wonderfully gutsy fightback on Stage 17!

I remember screaming "doper" at the TV along with my friends. Funny that. Lazurus he was not.

I am not accusing this forum of anit-american bias I am accusing the media of anti-Armstrong bias btw, and since most forum-ites get their opinions via the media......

Nothing has been proved but speculation is rife. When (if) it is I will be in the forefront of those calling for him to be striped of his titles and flogged.

In the mean time I just ask myself "Why does he not get caught when they seem to catch nigh on everyone else?" and "Why are cycle sport fans surprised/disappointed when so-and-so tests positive?" It is a dirty sport, always has been and always will be. The assumption should surely be that most, if not all, GC leaderboard contenders are doping at some point or another.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Yeah, exactly. Greg is just parroting the official line of the Cult of Lance.

Do try and muster a sensible argument instead of attacking me.

I'm simply acting as an agent provocateur, my involvement in the Cult of Lance ended when he failed to win on his comeback. What a loser.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I am not talking about his attitude to winning, as well you know; I am talking about his attitude to people in the peloton who speak out on drugs. As I said, you seem to ignore almost everything that contradicts your chosen view on Lance. We know he hasn't failed an official drugs test, but we also know what he has done to others who have spoken out, and we also know that he has failed at least one retrospective test for a substance for which there were not regular tests at the time (which of course is not an official test). And we also know that a lot of people associated with him have made quite substantial claims about his practices, rather too many IMHO for it to be just a result of bitterness or jealousy or anything else.

You made an unequivocal statement about the man's character in general.

How would you characterise his attitude to those who speak out on drugs in cycling. Plenty of otherwise clean athletes in other sports, some of which it has been my good fortune to play with, also speak in similar terms of those who out the issue. Why is this do you think?

 

[Tim Bennet.]

The assumption should surely be that most, if not all, GC leaderboard contenders are doping at some point or another.

Correct.

"Why does he not get caught when they seem to catch nigh on everyone else?"

It's possible that they don't catch nigh on everyone else. Maybe they only catch the over zealous or the sloppy. Perhaps we only catch a tiny minority.

"Why are cycle sport fans surprised/disappointed when so-and-so tests positive?"

I think it's quite nice that most sports fans are obviously optimists who want to think the best of people.
Doesn't mean they're right.

Until the whole of doping is laid bare, we have no idea as to the magnitude of the problem. We're lead to believe we're seeing the last dying twitches of a bad, bad, bygone age. But how do we know? Perhaps they've all moved on to a new, undetectable phase. We just don't know. So when someone makes an allegation we have to examine the evidence and judge it purely on it's merits.

 

[rich p]

I am not accusing this forum of anit-american bias I am accusing the media of anti-Armstrong bias btw, and since most forum-ites get their opinions via the media......
.

??? That seems to imply that as we read the media, we are therefore anti -us???
The media, seem to suck up everything from LA to me, from his Godlike anti cancer malarkey to Planet Armstrong. I've rarely heard press criticism of him.

If you're allowed to shout 'doper' at Landis before you had proof why aren't others allowed to do the same with regard to LA, Basso etc?

 

[Flying_Monkey]

How would you characterise his attitude to those who speak out on drugs in cycling.

He is thoroughly nasty towards them - witness Simeoni.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

??? That seems to imply that as we read the media, we are therefore anti -us???
The media, seem to suck up everything from LA to me, from his Godlike anti cancer malarkey to Planet Armstrong. I've rarely heard press criticism of him.

If you're allowed to shout 'doper' at Landis before you had proof why aren't others allowed to do the same with regard to LA, Basso etc?

Perhaps we read different papers, then, and perhaps in different languages at times....

As for my name calling when have I said you can't do it..... just I would not have expected anyone to take my accusing Landis seriously neither can you expect anyone to take your accusing LA, et al, seriously in the absence of any substantive proof.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Perhaps we read different papers, then, and perhaps in different languages at times....

Yeah, but you said 'the media' (if you're going to accuse others of generalisation...). And I certainly don't get the impression that there is an anti-Armstrong bias in the media in general - very much the opposite. But it's clear that those journalists who know about cycling have deep suspicions.

 

[Origamist]

Another Landis interview:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cyclin...e_d&id=5215959