Landis 'fesses up?!

[psmiffy]

Sorry Rich but there is just too much detail - and too few witnesses - Landis is the only one that there is any proof against - if it was happening on the industrial scale like has been described there would have been someone who wanted to make a name for themselves and blab with the associated Police raids etc

I am sure that with the increasing sophistication of testing and the habit of the drug testing people to hang onto samples that they would have at least got some of the the other players retrospectively at some time or other on the Testosterone - it would seem to be pretty easy to detect

 

[rich p]

We probably won't agree then, Smiffy, on this one. It rings true to me and there has always been a whiff of fish about LA, Big George and you only have to see the number of ex USPand Disco riders that got nicked after leaving the clinical methods of Bruyneel (allegedly).
Why would Landis make this up?

 

[psmiffy]

Why would Landis make this up?

because he is not quite right in the head? to come out with all this after spending $1.? on a campaign to clear his name - it all sound the sort of stuff a fairly amateur Jack Higgins or Fredrick Forsyth could of cobbled up

LA has always been there to be shot at - so far all the bullets have missed - but you have only got to watch current racing to see how a good team (and he had a team that contained people that could win in their own right) can get their bloke to the front of the main classification without him putting in real performances - the guy was just like a spider pulling the strings

that is not to say I have not always wondered how it was that he emerged so suddenly after his illness

 

[rich p]

I didn't think we'd agree!
The circumstantial evidence against Armstrong is quite persuasive and the fact that so many of ex-team-mates were subsequently caught has to make you wonder why they apparently only took up doping after leaving USP, but hey ho!

 

[psmiffy]

I didn't think we'd agree!

That's life but I think it will be very interesting to see if WADA get of their collective bottoms and carry out an investigation or if LA bothers to go down the litigation route

 

[mangaman]

Sorry Rich but there is just too much detail - and too few witnesses - Landis is the only one that there is any proof against - if it was happening on the industrial scale like has been described there would have been someone who wanted to make a name for themselves and blab with the associated Police raids etc

I am sure that with the increasing sophistication of testing and the habit of the drug testing people to hang onto samples that they would have at least got some of the the other players retrospectively at some time or other on the Testosterone - it would seem to be pretty easy to detect

Well they did hang onto Lance's 1999 sample and it was +ve for EPO, alledgedly.

He didn't even directly deny it, or sue L'equipe for libel, but said on his website

"I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance[-]enhancing drugs."

Plus the circumstantial (in some cases) evidence

Frankie Andreu - admitted to using EPO while riding for them
Levi Leipheimer positive for ephedrine before joining them
Landis now claims he doped with them and implicates Hincapie
Heras and Hamilton caught after leaving the team

The way they cruised up the Alps as a team without breaking sweat. Someone's already mentioned the stage Hincapie won when he outclimbed Perrero. He is considered a classics man - one for Paris-Roubaix

It's like Boonen or Cancellara suddenly winning in the high mountains

 

[rich p]

It's like Boonen or Cancellara suddenly winning in the high mountains

..or Contador beating Cancellara in a TT

 

[mangaman]

..or Contador beating Cancellara in a TT

or, indeed, like Contador beating Cancellara in a TT

 

[Ball]

Interesting to read Lance's statement at the beginning of stage 5 of the Tour of Cali. Seems to point very much towards Landis's mental state. He says he doesn't want to make any derisive comments about the guy but goes on to reveal that he sent emails and texts at ludicrous hours of the morning and was reported to be talking to himself during the tour of the gila. But then the guy has just accused him of cheating. Landis sounds messed up if you ask me.

That said, it really wouldn't surprise me if the allegations are true. There is something just a bit too special about LA and I totally take your point about George Hincapie. I've finally got round to reading Lance's book and have nearly finished. I've never liked the guy but have always respected his achievements, unfortunately this has just given a sceptic like me another chance to doubt.

 

[montage]

..or Contador beating Cancellara in a TT

That was a particular hilly (i.e. it was mostly uphill) TT if I remember in Conty's defence.
This is coming from a non-contador fan

 

[mangaman]

Interesting to read Lance's statement at the beginning of stage 5 of the Tour of Cali. Seems to point very much towards Landis's mental state. He says he doesn't want to make any derisive comments about the guy but goes on to reveal that he sent emails and texts at ludicrous hours of the morning and was reported to be talking to himself during the tour of the gila. But then the guy has just accused him of cheating. Landis sounds messed up if you ask me.

That said, it really wouldn't surprise me if the allegations are true. There is something just a bit too special about LA and I totally take your point about George Hincapie. I've finally got round to reading Lance's book and have nearly finished. I've never liked the guy but have always respected his achievements, unfortunately this has just given a sceptic like me another chance to doubt.

This is typical Lance - he's insinuated things about Greg Lemond / Andreu now Landis without actually producing anything to deny he doped.

He is seriously wealthy and litigious, but has never sued when his 1999 samples were positive for example. Ditto now. If Armstrong was clean and Landis is just a fantasist, he would sue his ass right now, big time - as Landis's accusations basically destroy his whole credibilty.

If he does take things to court, it will be interesting and Lance may be cleared.

If he doesn't and just puts out slurs on Landis's mental health and doesn't try to clear his name through the courts - it would imply he has something to hide.

After all the Landis allegations are basically saying his whole TDF winning career was built on the back of cheating, and his whole house of cards will tumble.

 

[maurice]

That was a particular hilly (i.e. it was mostly uphill) TT if I remember in Conty's defence.
This is coming from a non-contador fan

iirc it was pretty flat, around a lake, with one small climb.

 

[dellzeqq]

it was indeed a flat course with one climb. Poor Phil tried to keep the disbelief out of his voice, but didn't quite succeed. The impression that Contador was a couple of slices short of a sandwich remains with me to this day

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/20052010/58/tour-de-france-armstrong-blasts-landis-doping-claim.html

Lance isn't having it....

 

[lukesdad]

Why would Landis make this up, Rich P,...... cos the guy s a fruitcake. If you want to hang LA you ve got to find a more convincing witness......Maybe, a certain... Mr Livingstone.....I presume.

 

[mangaman]

it was indeed a flat course with one climb. Poor Phil tried to keep the disbelief out of his voice, but didn't quite succeed. The impression that Contador was a couple of slices short of a sandwich remains with me to this day

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/20052010/58/tour-de-france-armstrong-blasts-landis-doping-claim.html

Lance isn't having it....

It was indeed