Make it clear that turning traffic should give way!

[summerdays]

Ok I give you the best one in Bristol that I can think of:

These are screenshots from google and depending on the position it just so happens to show the before and after view.

Before:

After:

I use that one quite often going to or from Queen's Square to the left, and I have to say it works. Though I tend to approach from the roundabout and join it when going to Queen's Square.

As you can see the position of the roundabout has moved and the cyclists and pedestrians now have a much more direct line. The surface of the crossing is raised to the level of the pavement which adds to the sense that the road traffic should give way to the crossing traffic.

 

[Markymark]

I'm confused. Pic 1(mrjay's post, not summerdays) the cyclist is supposed to give way (big old white triangle). They should stop if it's too difficult to see all around. It is EXACTLY what pedestrians manage to do millions of times a day. I don;t run across the roads, I stop and have a look around. Same applies to cyclists. If you don't like having to stop at give way signs, cycle on the road or walk...except they're also be give way signs there too.

Maybe I'm missing something.....

 

[sidevalve]

I'm confused. Pic 1(mrjay's post, not summerdays) the cyclist is supposed to give way (big old white triangle). They should stop if it's too difficult to see all around. It is EXACTLY what pedestrians manage to do millions of times a day. I don;t run across the roads, I stop and have a look around. Same applies to cyclists. If you don't like having to stop at give way signs, cycle on the road or walk...except they're also be give way signs there too.

Maybe I'm missing something.....

Nope - you're not missing something. As you say the triangle means give way. It defines the 'road' as a 'secondary' one. This is not purely a cycle lane either as it has the tactile paving for blind/partially sighted pedestrians installed.

 

[mjr]

I'm confused. Pic 1(mrjay's post, not summerdays) the cyclist is supposed to give way (big old white triangle). They should stop if it's too difficult to see all around. It is EXACTLY what pedestrians manage to do millions of times a day. I don;t run across the roads, I stop and have a look around. Same applies to cyclists. If you don't like having to stop at give way signs, cycle on the road or walk...except they're also be give way signs there too.

Maybe I'm missing something.....

Are you missing that we're supposed to be encouraging cycling (which "stop, cycle on the road or walk" doesn't do) and that pedestrians also fail to do it a lot and then get blamed by police for stepping onto the carriageway? (Fortunately our local chief constable seems to have realised the limits of human ability and is starting to call for better highway design.)

Any combination of design and laws that expects the more vulnerable road user to do a physically impossible act like look two or three ways at once should be reformed as soon as possible to make less demands on them and more on the faster ones.

@summerdays - I used the old layout there quite a few times. It was pretty dodgy (I think it was worse than your picture suggests in one direction - did the cycleway do something strange approaching from Portwall?) and it's good that it was changed shortly before I left.

@sidevalve - technically, you're correct in that it's a mixed path, but most pedestrians seem to be on the other side of the A road or walking through the petrol station forecourt. The road being crossed is a car park and delivery bay entrance. There is no good reason for it to have priority and even less for the crossing to be so close to the corner.

 

[Markymark]

S encourage cycling by insisting infrastructure accommodates cyvling not to do what pedestrians and cars do in navigating with other road users? Seriously? I'm all for getting balance for cyclists but that is plain silly. When walking, drivibg or cycling, give way tends to mean stop, look and proceed when safe. No special measures for cyclists.

Pedesrtrians are already giving space to cyclists. Quite frankly dump all cycle lanes and ride on the road.

 

[summerdays]

@summerdays - I used the old layout there quite a few times. It was pretty dodgy (I think it was worse than your picture suggests in one direction - did the cycleway do something strange approaching from Portwall?) and it's good that it was changed shortly before I left.

I can't really remember the old version that well, I didn't used to come in from that direction, very often I think it probably changed before we changed office. I think I used to come around the roundabout and up a dropped kerb. How long has it been like that if it changed before you left?

 

[jonesy]

I think he means segregated paths parallel and adjacent to the carriageway, which are not continuous across side roads.

And the corner has a large turning radius, so that turning vehicles don't have to slow, and sightlines difficult for cyclists trying to cross the junction, so you have to look over your shoulder to see if someone is about to turn across your path.

 

[mjr]

S encourage cycling by insisting infrastructure accommodates cyvling not to do what pedestrians and cars do in navigating with other road users? Seriously? I'm all for getting balance for cyclists but that is plain silly. When walking, drivibg or cycling, give way tends to mean stop, look and proceed when safe. No special measures for cyclists.

Give way should mean only give way, but here it means doing something physically impossible before proceeding. This isn't a special measure for cycling - it's a measure for pedestrians too and an end to the special measure that motorists currently have. The only silly thing is someone on a cycling forum advocating continuing special measures favouring motorists.

Pedesrtrians are already giving space to cyclists. Quite frankly dump all cycle lanes and ride on the road.

We know that doesn't work, but I agree it'd be better for cycleways to take space from the carriageway rather than the footway.

 

[mjr]

How long has it been like that if it changed before you left?

2+ years. They might have been working on it when I left and I've been back since...

 

[Arrowfoot]

Agree with OP. There is a lot of doubt created by the various designs that exist. The experienced cyclists will take to the roads rather than cycleways for the flow that it allows.

We do need to address and come to a common set of standards for those who are young and those who are new to cycling or feel more comfortable using the cycleways.

Giving way to turning traffic is also counter intuitive. I have seen drivers stop and allow cyclist to carry on as the natural reaction is to give way. Sadly there will be more accidents until we fix it.

 

[Markymark]

Oh, when you're driving do you not stop at give way signs? I'd suggest handing your driving license back in please.

Oh and drivers never needed to look behind and forwards at the same time. Except when changing lanes, merging onto motorway, turning left across cycle paths....

 

[mjr]

Usually I don't stop at give way signs: I alter my speed so I can roll out into a safe space. If you always stop at give ways, then you fall below the required standard and should hand your licence back.

When merging onto a motorway or similar, there is not usually oncoming traffic, so as long as it's clear, it should only fill from behind and you can look there. Similarly when changing lanes. And drivers almost never give way when turning across the most common UK design of bidirectional cycleway crossings, which is where we came in...

 

[Dan B]

Oh, when you're driving do you not stop at give way signs?

When I'm driving in the carriageway along a major road, there is no requirement to five way at each minor road joining it. However if I'm cycling along the major road in a segregated cycleway, often there is such a requirement.

In not sure there is a good way to make this better without the use of RPGs, though

 

[Tin Pot]

[insert pic of molehill and a mountain here]

If you don't want to ride on the cycle lane, ride on the road.

End.

 

[Markymark]

When I'm driving in the carriageway along a major road, there is no requirement to five way at each minor road joining it. However if I'm cycling along the major road in a segregated cycleway, often there is such a requirement.

Ride on the road then. Cycle paths stuck n the pavement are taking away (mostly) pedestrian space and will be compromised as often as pedestrians are at crossing.