Mechanical doping

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oldroadman

Veteran
Location
Ubique
Somewhere, there is someone who will believe it...right, shopping done, off for a potter, looks like rain. Lovely.:banghead:
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
My ebiking experience suggests heat is not a good way to detect the presence of a motor.

I've hammered my Bosch ebike a few times - not least when trying to keep up with @ColinJ and pals.

There is no detectable by hand heat in the casing after a long climb.

It's a 250w road legal system, but peaks at more than double that when it and me are giving it full beans.

If 500w or so produces next to no heat, then 50w - all a pro needs to gain an edge - is going to produce even less.

Not that it follows the bikes on the footage don't have motors, they might or might not.

Any motor on a bike is easy to detect by inspection.

To use a police phrase, it is there to be seen, as is the lumpy battery, connecting wires and activation switch.
 

Foghat

Freight-train-groove-rider
My ebiking experience suggests heat is not a good way to detect the presence of a motor.

There is no detectable by hand heat in the casing after a long climb.

All that suggests is that heat detection by hand is not a very effective way to attempt to detect motors....in a certain type of frame/motor combination. The Stade 2 documentary has already shown that infrared detectors are more than capable of detecting the temperature differences (of only a few degrees) in rear hubs where hub motors are suspected. It also showed that the bottom bracket motor it tested produced a significant temperature difference.

Maybe the detectors need adaptation or refinement for optimal use in the policing of bike racing - but at least these journalists have made the UCI sit up and take notice.

Inspection is all well and good, but race officials have limited numbers, time and capacity, and hundreds of bikes to check, not to mention some seemingly well-practised evasion, avoidance and diversion tactics employed by team mechanics and riders to counter too. They need devices that will alert them to machines to be suspicious of, in live race situations - so that they can seize the bike immediately after the race, or even during if necessary, and perform the detailed inspection. And since officials won't know which riders could be using motors, or when during the race, the detectors need to cover as much ground with as little effort as possible.

Heat detectors are not the be-all-and-end-all, and certainly require the corroboration of a visual/manual inspection, but they could be the basis of an effective detection and deterrent system that affords greater capability (against certain types of motor) to the resource-limited UCI.
 
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oldroadman

Veteran
Location
Ubique
I did have a smile when it was suggested that heat detectors could be used from motos near the peloton. Just when the knee jerkers want to reduce motos, the same knee jerkers (or closely related ones) want to have MORE motos "alongside the peloton". I wonder if any of these people have ever seen/attended/taken part in a bike race at any level. certainly not in the Benelux countries, where smaller roads are a feature, and the idea of a moto "in/alongside the peloton" is not only daft but a practical impossibility, even if the riders didn't shove the ting off the road and into the nearest fertiliser covered field. Thus putting the unfortunates deep in the ......! ;)
 

Foghat

Freight-train-groove-rider
Why does it need more motos? Professional races already have several commissaires, riding pillion, close enough to the riders to be able to point a detector at them and view the thermal image on a handheld screen - they could easily do this job. The Stade 2 footage demonstrates that the detector doesn't have to be really close to the riders in order to discern enough to place a rider under suspicion. I dare say portable detectors with large enough screens to make sense of while on the back of a motorbike can be procured - modern technology is pretty damn capable - likewise ones with detection ranges optimised for the temperatures encountered on bikes in races. Maybe they'd need some customised panniers to store them in during less important phases of the race. I doubt if anything is insurmountable.

Once detected, a suspicious bike could be radioed to the chief commissaire and race director, who could take measures to impound the bike immediately at the finish.

Or if necessary they could enforce a bike or wheel change there and then and get the bike/wheel picked up by a following official mechanic in a van for an immediate roadside inspection and/or secure conveyance to the finish.

Once the UCI has investigated and calibrated the detection system possibilities thoroughly, including testing real-world bike/motor/riding situations with affordable portable and suitably reliable/sensitive detectors, it will likely have a pretty decent understanding of the typical thermal image signatures for hidden bike motors and the degree of certainty of an incongruous heat source having doubtful provenance - meaning enforced bike/wheel changes would not necessarily be unreasonable in a race context. But clearly discretion would need to be exercised if the suspected discovery occurred at a critical point in the race - in which case the rider(s) could be allowed to proceed but carefully scrutinised to ensure no secret bike-switching takes place before being impounded. And if a motor is discovered in a roadside inspection following an enforced change during a race, then the entire team is immediately disqualified and instructed to withdraw from the race.

Obviously a lot needs to be thought through by the UCI, and no doubt those who are so naïve as to think this cheating hasn't happened, or who object to the effort made to uncover it, will throw up 'obstacles' or find reasons to complain, but the UCI has to do something to maintain racing's credibility in light of van den Driessche and all the compelling circumstantial evidence. Laugh all you want, but a practical impossibility it almost certainly isn't - Greg Lemond thinks it's a good idea, and his opinions on such matters carry weight.
 
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deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Why does it need more motos? Professional races already have several commissaires, riding pillion, close enough to the riders to be able to point a detector at them and view the thermal image on a handheld screen - they could easily do this job. The Stade 2 footage demonstrates that the detector doesn't have to be really close to the riders in order to discern enough to place a rider under suspicion. I dare say detectors with large enough screens to make sense of while on the back of a motorbike can be procured - modern technology is pretty damn capable - likewise ones with detection ranges optimised for the temperatures encountered on bikes in races.

Once detected, a suspicious bike could be radioed to the chief commissaire and race director, who could take measures to impound the bike immediately at the finish.

Or if necessary they could enforce a bike or wheel change there and then and get the bike/wheel picked up by a following official mechanic in a van for an immediate roadside inspection and/or secure conveyance to the finish.

Once the UCI has investigated and calibrated the detection system possibilities thoroughly, including testing real-world bike/motor/riding situations with affordable portable and suitably reliable/sensitive detectors, it will likely have a pretty decent understanding of the typical thermal image signatures for hidden bike motors and the degree of certainty of an incongruous heat source having doubtful provenance - meaning enforced bike/wheel changes would not necessarily be unreasonable in a race context. But clearly discretion would need to be exercised if the suspected discovery occurred at a critical point in the race - in which case the rider(s) could be allowed to proceed but carefully scrutinised to ensure no secret bike-switching takes place before being impounded. And if a motor is discovered in a roadside inspection following an enforced change during a race, then the entire team is immediately disqualified and instructed to withdraw from the race.

Obviously a lot needs to be thought through by the UCI, and no doubt those who are too naïve to think this cheating hasn't happened, or who object to the effort made to uncover it, will throw up 'obstacles' or find reasons to complain, but the UCI has to do something to maintain racing's credibility in light of van den Driessche and all the compelling circumstantial evidence. Laugh all you want, but a practical impossibility it almost certainly isn't - Greg Lemond thinks it's a good idea, and his opinions on such matters carry weight.
Of course, if adopted and commissaires were given the job of using them, naughty riders and teams would immediately hire a camera and test to find out how long it takes for the motor to cool back to a normal level. That way they'd know that they'd have to use the motor when there's little or no chance of the commissaire passing alongside within, say, 2 minutes. One of the prime places for use would be on steep hills, particularly where roads can narrow and crowds get noisy. Static roadside cameras might manage to catch cheats or at least dissuade use in such locations.
 

Foghat

Freight-train-groove-rider
Indeed. And the static detectors could be on bikes too, leapfrogging the race and setting up at each place of choice (discreetly where possible) - of course, they wouldn't need to be mixing it with the riders the whole time, so no great increase in moto danger. Ditch a few media bikes if necessary to keep the moto numbers acceptable - after all, if hidden motors cripple racing's credibility, sponsors and media/pubic interest will likely be disappearing in much higher quantities.

Whatever system is implemented will have weaknesses and won't detect every transgressor. But combine it with some very severe sanctions for the teams, and the deterrent effect will be not insignificant, particularly once the first few red-handed cheat discoveries are made.
 
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shouldbeinbed

Rollin' along
Location
Manchester way
This one is a bit of a giveaway

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