Motor insurance - warning!!

[Mile195]

I wonder if one found themselves in this situation, their insurer paying out on a vehicle that's no longer theirs, could that person get the policy voided themselves? For example, by phoning the insurer and saying that they lied about their occupation, that the vehicle was never actually garaged, that they were using it for business use and it had undeclared modifications.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Maybe, but remember you give permission for details to be shared with other insurers; try getting insurance after admitting you lied to obtain a policy ...

 

[Archie_tect]

You can be sued, and the insurers will have had to secured an unfulfilled court judgement against the driver before the other insurer will pay up. The problem is that the driver is probably a man of straw, which is why they will pursue the other insurers.
In my experience it would be very rare for an insure to then follow through with a legal claim against the person who bought the policy. I expect the ombudsman would take a very dim view of that.

That's a long paper trail leading nowhere and a lot of faffing about for insurers though.

There is a database held at the DVLA which records which cars have an MOT, insurance and a VED license or a valid SORN certificate, and which addresses have people who have valid driving licenses for the vehicles registered at that address, especially relevant where they are banned from driving, is it completely beyond their wits to join up the dots and send people round to the last registered owners' address to check and if necessary seize cars which aren't legally on the road thereby preventing unregistered drivers.

The Police already have vehicle recognition to analyse which cars are driving on the road legally... they could even cross-reference the registration plate against the registered owner's details and car make, model and colour to identify false plates and banned drivers.... or is this starting to sound a bit too draconian?

 

[Kiwiavenger]

I wonder if one found themselves in this situation, their insurer paying out on a vehicle that's no longer theirs, could that person get the policy voided themselves? For example, by phoning the insurer and saying that they lied about their occupation, that the vehicle was never actually garaged, that they were using it for business use and it had undeclared modifications.

Even if the policy was voided "ab initio" (from inception) then all that would happen is the insurers would pay out on recept of a unsatisfied county court judgement which has serious consequenses. it could be in the drivers name (if known) or the registered owner and keepers (kindly provided by the DVLA) its also worth remembering that even low level claims (bumpers etc) can cost more money than average joe can afford and injury caims can run into £1000's easily.

Whilst there is a valid certificate of insurance in placefr the vehicle thn there is cover for it under the rod traffic act. that is why all inurers requst either a lost certificate declaration or the return of the certificate of insurance in question for the vehicle when the policy is canceled, changed or voided.

As mentoned before, if you are in any doubt the let your insurers know. one major mis represented fact is SDP use does not cover you to drive to work, and most companies class driving to more than one place of work as business use even if you spend equal time in both offices/sites.

 

[The Jogger]

What an eye opener. I shall be cancelling my insurances in future and sending back the documents.

I was told by a hire company after scraping one of their vans and denting the side door I wouldn't have to tell my insurer's as I had taken out the excess insurance or something and everything came out of their insurance. I think I will inform my broker at renewal anyway just to be on the safe side.

 

[CopperCyclist]

It's interesting, but really not a problem once you know about it, so thanks for the warning! Would be nice if insurance companies themselves made this more widely known - surely it would be in their favour too! Just make sure you cancel as soon as you sell.

I have an anecdote based on this too that may cheer people up. I attended a non stop RTC one, where a vehicle had smashed into a parked car, and the occupants all made off. The vehicle was registered and insured to someone... Let's just say 'known' to us. I attended the scene, and there were no witness at all. Whilst I was there, the registered keeper turned up!

I went over and thanked him for coming back. "oh, I wasn't driving" he said, "I sold this car a couple of hours ago".
"Really. Who to? " I enquired with some skepticism.
" Dave. From (local area)."

Unfortunately, keeper didn't know Dave's address, surname, or even phone number. He had amazingly managed to meet him in the pub and sell his car on a whim as Dave even has the money with him there. He had, obviously, lost the V5 so 'Dave' was going to apply for a new one. This irked me, as although the smell of BS was so strong, I'm sure even you reading this on the Internet are being to wonder if your dog has farted, but this is exactly the sort of weak excuse, that without being able to disprove a court will accept. Grr.

Then the magic happened. "So how do I get the car back" Keeper asked. You see, despite the innocent parked car probably being an effective write off, the Keeper's car was drivable, and with a new rear wing likely good as new.

"You don't." I replied. "It's not yours. It's Dave's. Tell him to come to the station and I'll have a chat with him".

"Naaah, I'll like, pick it up for him. Where's it going? "

"No, you won't. And I don't need to tell you where it's going as its not yours. Thanks for your assistance sir."

Car was taken away. Dave never turned up, so the car, without the new owner claiming it, was crushed.

I thought that was the end of the story, but a year later Keeper rang me up, very angry, because his insurance had just gone up by two grand. Apparently his insurance company had not believed his story about Dave, and had paid up in full, without contest, to the innocent party. He wanted me to ring up the insurance company and convince them that it wasn't his fault. After all I believed him didn't I.

 

[Ian A]

Really glad this was posted. I've never sold a car in my life (always run until scrapping) but it's very much worth knowing and I'm sure the same principle applied. When bought a motorbike from a dealer I wasn't allowed to take it without proof of insurance which made sense at the time.

 

[colly]

Good information.

Could this not be contested by the simple expedient that selling the bike/car is not actually granting permission to drive it? It's splitting hairs and fighting in court could cost more than a claim, but while handing over the keys might imply consent it is not expressly given. ( In the same way that being handed the keys to a car by a salesman on a forecourt in no way grants you permission to drive off in it)

 

[Drago]

Ah, the business with mateys insurer is a civil dispute. I'm sue you would have loved to have phoned the insurers to clear it up for him, but as police officers were forbidden from becoming involved in civil disputes. Oh what a shame you couldn't help him.

 

[fossyant]

All of the above is actually common sense. OK I deal with stuff like this in my work, contracts, money etc, but cancel your insurance.

The good side is, it protects the innocent party, ie the person run down or crashed into. Don't insure something you don't own. PS don't accept cash for a car. Pukka bank transfer.

 

[aoj]

All of the above is actually common sense. OK I deal with stuff like this in my work, contracts, money etc, but cancel your insurance.

The good side is, it protects the innocent party, ie the person run down or crashed into. Don't insure something you don't own. PS don't accept cash for a car. Pukka bank transfer.

Why would you recommend not accepting cash, as I have done in the past for a motorcycle sale?

 

[Drago]

Cash every time. Even a bank transfer can go sideways if the seller is a big enough villain that his financial activities are being monitored via a PACE production order.

 

[stephec]

How can you be accused of giving consent for someone to drive a car that as you've signed the log book over is no longer your car?

 

[Beebo]

Why would you recommend not accepting cash, as I have done in the past for a motorcycle sale?

It isnt a huge problem as long as you get a signed reciept, but if you want an audit trail for the sale you will need the buyers details, and evidence of who you sold the car to.