No customer service at Alpkit / Sonder

[Deleted member 91092]

Hello

I would like to warn potential buyers against Sonder bikes built by Alpkit in UK. I live in France and I bought (online) a Santiago touring bike just before Summer 2019.
At the time of this order I already had quite a bad experience with Alpkit. They claimed to assemble bikes and components according to customer specifications, whatever they are. So I agreed with them on the built and price, with my specific choice of crankset, tyres and a few small details. I paid 100% and three weeks later they told me they couldn't get the crankset nor the tyres I had chosen. In the end I had to fight with them during more than one week (including crazy exchanges with a guy named Tom who was extremely unpolite) to finally receive the bike with no crankset, wrong tyres and wrong saddle among other things. I only got a refund corresponding to the missing crankset, and I had to buy and set the crankset and tyres by myself. I related this story on this forum:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/ordered-a-new-bike.248180/page-2#post-5651280
My opinion was that they were unable to offer what they claimed, namely build bikes according to customer specifications. I was right, since a few monthes later they changed their sales model, and now one can only choose among a restricted set of options (like most bike sellers). I could have lived with that if they admitted it, but it was not the case.

Almost three years laters, I have a more serious issue. My rear wheel has 10 cracks located at the spoke holes. The bike wheels are the stock OEM ones, namely the Lovemud Orbit gravel/touring set, that comes with a three year warranty. From what I understand this is a not so rare problem (that can also happen with high end models) that must be taken under warranty. So two weeks ago (a few days before the formal end of the three year period) I made a warranty request to Alpkit. Despite several reminders I have no answer, only automatic acknowledgements of receipt.

So I can only conclude that Alpkit does not want to honor the warranty, which is illegal.

I know that they benefit from a very good reputation, and that they even received several awards. But facts are what they are. I consider myself as an experienced Internet buyer. I have Internet access since the nineties, and I bought online many many things, including crazy things from crazy countries and sellers. During more than 25 years I only had very few issues, and all of them were solved with a few emails. Alpkit is by far my worst online shopping experience.

 

[Kingfisher101]

Hello

I would like to warn potential buyers against Sonder bikes built by Alpkit in UK. I live in France and I bought (online) a Santiago touring bike just before Summer 2019.
At the time of this order I already had quite a bad experience with Alpkit. They claimed to assemble bikes and components according to customer specifications, whatever they are. So I agreed with them on the built and price, with my specific choice of crankset, tyres and a few small details. I paid 100% and three weeks later they told me they couldn't get the crankset nor the tyres I had chosen. In the end I had to fight with them during more than one week (including crazy exchanges with a guy named Tom who was extremely unpolite) to finally receive the bike with no crankset, wrong tyres and wrong saddle among other things. I only got a refund corresponding to the missing crankset, and I had to buy and set the crankset and tyres by myself. I related this story on this forum:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/ordered-a-new-bike.248180/page-2#post-5651280
My opinion was that they were unable to offer what they claimed, namely build bikes according to customer specifications. I was right, since a few monthes later they changed their sales model, and now one can only choose among a restricted set of options (like most bike sellers). I could have lived with that if they admitted it, but it was not the case.

Almost three years laters, I have a more serious issue. My rear wheel has 10 cracks located at the spoke holes. The bike wheels are the stock OEM ones, namely the Lovemud Orbit gravel/touring set, that comes with a three year warranty. From what I understand this is a not so rare problem (that can also happen with high end models) that must be taken under warranty. So two weeks ago (a few days before the formal end of the three year period) I made a warranty request to Alpkit. Despite several reminders I have no answer, only automatic acknowledgements of receipt.

So I can only conclude that Alpkit does not want to honor the warranty, which is illegal.

I know that they benefit from a very good reputation, and that they even received several awards. But facts are what they are. I consider myself as an experienced Internet buyer. I have Internet access since the nineties, and I bought online many many things, including crazy things from crazy countries and sellers. During more than 25 years I only had very few issues, and all of them were solved with a few emails. Alpkit is by far my worst online shopping experience.

Post on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram accounts, I'm sure you will get a quick response to rectify the problem.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Post on their Twitter, Facebook and Instagram accounts, I'm sure you will get a quick response to rectify the problem.

I know this is a standard approach these days for some, but I (and others) don't have any of those services. That the OP can't get a response via Alpkit's email makes me think twice about buying from them.

 

[Milkfloat]

It may well be that they say that with 3 years use it could be seen that the warranty would not cover this normal wear and tear.

 

[vickster]

You could try a credit card charge back if you can prove that the wheels weren’t fit for purpose (Assuming you paid by card and the process is similar in France).
If no reply by email, phone call?
Or email the management team starting with David Hanney their CEO

 

[Deleted member 91092]

From what I read on this kind of cracks, this is not normal wear and tear. In any case they have to answer me, and then we could discuss. I know they usually answer quickly, I had another issue a few monthes ago and I got an answer within the next day. This last issue was that the rear brake cable broke suddenly (I was lucky, no accident), when I replaced it I saw it was rusted to the core. So I asked them whether it was genuine stainless steel, and the answer was that even stainless steel does rust. I accepted the answer because it is technically true and because I'm faulty not to have checked the cables before, but I'm still a bit skeptical as they didn't confirm explicitly that the cable was stainless steel (one can still find galvanized cables, which I find weird).

 

[lazybloke]

It may well be that they say that with 3 years use it could be seen that the warranty would not cover this normal wear and tear.

Is there anything in that photo to suggest 'normal'?

 

[Milkfloat]

A wheel lasting 3 years is often normal. In addition the OP does not seem to be on top of maintenance judging by the brake cable.

 

[cougie uk]

I've bought a lot of kit from alpkit including some bike packing bags. One came with a buckle missing and an email exchange sorted that out.

A wheel lasting three years seems about right to me. And I've never had a brake cable rust in 40 plus years of cycling.

How hard are you riding the bike ?

 

[Deleted member 91092]

I've just received a response from Alpkit. Most presumably they have seen my post here. I will report on this response later, depending on what they say next.

To answer questions here:

- whatever my maintenance skills are, I don't see any maintenance that aluminium rims would need, except cleaning. As I just said to Alpkit, the wheel is not even untrue. To me the material is faulty.

- I agree that the rusted cable is suspect, that's why I asked about galvanized vs. stainless steel, and as I said above I got no clear answer. Note that the bike design for the rear cable is not optimal: the cable is fully housed (hence it cannot be checked without removing it), and the path goes along the diagonal tube. The cable broke at the (lowest) point corresponding to the bottom bracket, where it could be that humidity accumulates. The housing showed no sign of wear. Also note that I live close to the sea. The bike sleeps inside.

- my riding style is very mild, mainly daily commuting (about 13000 km) with very little load on the rear rack, local day trips, and ~4000 km family touring (sleeping in hotels and b&b) with no more than ~10 kg luggage. Road and good tracks only.

English is not my mother tongue, I hope my first post is clear and balanced. I sticked to the facts, then everybody interested in Sonder bikes (fortunately the bike itself is very nice) can make his own opinion. I added that I'm an experienced Internet user because really this experience is the worst in my shopping history. My opinion is that the vast majority of online sellers are honest and helpful.

 

[cougie uk]

I've just received a response from Alpkit. Most presumably they have seen my post here. I will report on this response later, depending on what they say next.

To answer questions here:

- whatever my maintenance skills are, I don't see any maintenance that aluminium rims would need, except cleaning. As I just said to Alpkit, the wheel is not even untrue. To me the material is faulty.

- I agree that the rusted cable is suspect, that's why I asked about galvanized vs. stainless steel, and as I said above I got no clear answer. Note that the bike design for the rear cable is not optimal: the cable is fully housed (hence it cannot be checked without removing it), and the path goes along the diagonal tube. The cable broke at the (lowest) point corresponding to the bottom bracket, where it could be that humidity accumulates. The housing showed no sign of wear. Also note that I live close to the sea. The bike sleeps inside.

- my riding style is very mild, mainly daily commuting (about 13000 km) with very little load on the rear rack, local day trips, and ~4000 km family touring (sleeping in hotels and b&b) with no more than ~10 kg luggage. Road and good tracks only.

English is not my mother tongue, I hope my first post is clear and balanced. I sticked to the facts, then everybody interested in Sonder bikes (fortunately the bike itself is very nice) can make his own opinion. I added that I'm an experienced Internet user because really this experience is the worst in my shopping history. My opinion is that the vast majority of online sellers are honest and helpful.

8000 miles ? How many miles would you like out of your wheels ? Have you changed your chain or cassette at all ?

 

[HobbesOnTour]

@Jerome
I don't know you from Adam and that's mainly because you joined this community three years ago to pump another poster for information about their bike and have only returned to give out about the supplier.

Normally, in these things there are two sides to the story, the truth residing somewhere in the middle.
However, people from this community who I respect speak highly of this same supplier.

So two weeks ago (a few days before the formal end of the three year period) I made a warranty request to the supplier. Despite several reminders I have no answer, only automatic acknowledgements of receipt.

Since

I have Internet access since the nineties,

And

I'm an experienced Internet user

You've probably heard about this Pandemic that has swept the globe the past couple of years? There have been all kinds of knock on problems. Two weeks is far from ideal for a response but to my mind it's a tad irresponsible to go online and say

So I can only conclude that Alpkit does not want to honor the warranty, which is illegal.

You have receipts that your claim was logged.
Also, and I may be mistaken but Brexit may have caused changes in how things like warranties are dealt with between the EU and UK. Maybe someone is checking.

Or maybe the guy who made a big deal of a cable breaking after three years of use automatically goes to the back of the queue?

Most presumably they have seen my post here

I hope, for your sake, that they haven't. You've been less than kind about the company, used a perjorarative term about a named employee and on your other thread said something that could be libellous!

Normally we're anonymous on these board and you understand that because

I have Internet access since the nineties,

and

I'm an experienced Internet user

Except if they have read this thread they know exactly who you are!

My suggestion to you is to develop some patience and ask the Mods here nicely to delete this thread and your other posts.

By the way I'd have jumped at the chance to have a customised chainset with the option of just changing out individual rings and paid happily for it.

And

I have Internet access since the nineties,

and

I'm an experienced Internet user

Should know that there's a right to return with online sales. If you were that dissatisfied on delivery it could have been sent back.

 

[Deleted member 91092]

OK, I give up with this forum. Obviously everybody is free to believe I'm lying and/or I'm ill-intentioned against Alpkit, but I have no interest in such a behavior. All I said are facts and I can prove any single word if needed.

For the sake of completeness, here the message I sent about the broken cable

Rear brake cable broke suddenly
10/01/2022, 15:39
Hello

I bought a Sonder Santiago from your company in Summer 2019. Now it has about ~14000 km. I'm contacting you because a few days ago the (stock) rear brake cable broke suddenly. Fortunately it was not a critical braking, but obviously it could have been very dangerous.

When I changed the cable (I actually plan to change everything, cables +housing, as soon as I can) I saw that the cable was eaten by rust, to the core, at the position that corresponds to the lowest point (just below the bottom bracket). The housing shows no sign of wear, and functionnally I did not feel any anomaly.

Thus I am puzzled, because to my experience worn cable brake systems become stuck and difficult to use, so that you know when it's time to check / replace. I would expect that a stainless steel cable cannot rust, or only superficially (not to the breaking point).

However it seems that one can still find galvanized steel cables, which I find weird and risky. Would you check if my bike was equipped with stainless steel cables, and if yes, would you comment on this accident ?

Thanks

and the answer I got

Thanks for getting in touch!

Stainless cables still do rust, albeit slower than a galvanized cable would. To perform well until giving in after 1400 miles and 2 and a half years causes us no concern but I understand you questioning it. It's likely that a small amount of condensation had found its way in there, especially through changing temperatures and friction of use. This, combined with it being in an area prone to corrosion would explain it.


I'd consider it normal wear and tear. If you think we've overlooked something or have any further concerns or questions, don't hesitate to ask. 🙂

(I did not ask anything further about the cable: definitely not a big deal)

As for the cracks, here the answer I got yesterday after two weeks of silence

Apologies for the delayed response.

As part of our warranty process, wheels are covered for manufacturing defects or complete failure. As this didn't occur early on in the lifespan of the wheels, we don't consider it to be a manufacturing error.

We consider this damage after years of use to be wear and tear of the rim, having gone through a minimum of 2 and a half years' commuting and touring (touring with luggage puts much more strain on a wheelset than gravel as additional weight is constantly applied). As a result won't be looking to replace them completely under warranty. I can offer 50% off a replacement set of wheels for you as a solution.

I don't consider this as a fair response, because:
- cracks are not normal wear and tear. Maybe 2 or 2.5 years are the normal lifetime of these wheels, but Alpkit took the responsibility to set the warranty period to three years. I don't believe 5500 km (3400 miles) per year is a lot for this category of bike, and there is no warranty limitation related to the mileage. That's Alpkit's choice, not mine
- I don't need two new wheels, the front one is in perfect condition. And Alpkit does not have 700C wheelsets in stock, so that the proposed discount is useless to me

I notice that "bad" reviews of Alpkit on Trustpilot reach 13%, which is not excellent. Bike24 and bike-components (both in Germany) reach 7% and 6%
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.alpkit.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/bike24.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.bike-components.de

Given the few bad faith reactions I got here (thanks anyway to the others who tried to help) I won't comment any further. I'm sure that most people are clever enough to understand whether these misadventures are worthy of Alpkit's reputation.

 

[cougie uk]

OK, I give up with this forum. Obviously everybody is free to believe I'm lying and/or I'm ill-intentioned against Alpkit, but I have no interest in such a behavior. All I said are facts and I can prove any single word if needed.

For the sake of completeness, here the message I sent about the broken cable

and the answer I got

(I did not ask anything further about the cable: definitely not a big deal)

As for the cracks, here the answer I got yesterday after two weeks of silence

I don't consider this as a fair response, because:
- cracks are not normal wear and tear. Maybe 2 or 2.5 years are the normal lifetime of these wheels, but Alpkit took the responsibility to set the warranty period to three years. I don't believe 5500 km (3400 miles) per year is a lot for this category of bike, and there is no warranty limitation related to the mileage. That's Alpkit's choice, not mine
- I don't need two new wheels, the front one is in perfect condition. And Alpkit does not have 700C wheelsets in stock, so that the proposed discount is useless to me

I notice that "bad" reviews of Alpkit on Trustpilot reach 13%, which is not excellent. Bike24 and bike-components (both in Germany) reach 7% and 6%
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.alpkit.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/bike24.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.bike-components.de

Given the few bad faith reactions I got here (thanks anyway to the others who tried to help) I won't comment any further. I'm sure that most people are clever enough to understand whether these misadventures are worthy of Alpkit's reputation.

Blimey Jerome.

You've had the bike for THREE years. You've done 13000 miles on it.

One snapped cable and some cracked wheels that Alpkit will give you 50% off on replacement ? You'd have been banned from my LBS ages ago for whining.

And as for Trust pilot - Alpkit are 4.5 and the others are 4.6.

I don't really trust people who only come on to a forum to slag off suppliers. It usually says more about them than the supplier in my experience.

 

[Deleted member 91092]

Well, then clearly we are not used to the same LBS . Are you one of these kind of guys who spend 3000 GBP in a bike to ride it 6 miles/week ?