Rider down in Roehampton, looking like another death 15.11.13

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Having been an ex truck driver I think that is a very small time frame to get into a city, get unloaded and get out. Bearing in mind that there could be other trucks waiting to be unloaded.

You have to remember that trucks are a necessary evil. But I like the idea of restricting them for the rush hour periods.

The lady sadly died in the accident was a pedestrian and not a cyclist.

Steve
Necessary evil? How can it be a necessary outcome of living in an often cramped city that it be serviced by vehicles that were never designed for urban use? That unsuitably big and blind vehicles squeeze out the small and vulnerable road user? If there were a ''killer pays'' system, they'd improve road conditions for all of us almost immediately. They'd suddenly be able to afford fleet modifications, safety improvements, and catch up with urban requirements. Necessarily.

Until then, the deaths are simply an outcome of, not necessity, but cost shifting. Economic murder.
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
Thanks for that rant.

But without putting more vehicles on the road and escalating everyday costs, how would you get the goods to the shops in the towns and cities?

Steve
 

Kies

Guest
that would just make the roads less safe for those who commute outside those hours!

there is no action without reaction

Possibly, but the biggest numbers of commuters sharing the roads are during the morning/evening peaks, therefore it would be better to ban them during those times
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
Spen, it was an example.

Construction work goes on in cities and tippers need to be used. It is a very difficult situation to sort out. Using smaller tippers or goods vehicles means escalating costs. But I have driven for companies who do send smaller trucks into cities but it all adds to cost.

We cannot do away with trucks but there has to be solutions to reduce the accidents. This needs the co- operation of all road users.

Steve
 

Kies

Guest
better for some, but making it more dangerous for others.

Yes possibly, but there would be
A) fewer vehicles on the roads
B) fewer cyclists
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
Tipper trucks carry aggregate, that is necessary for the development of any town or city. I don't really think Steve was weighing up cyclist deaths as a by product of city life.
 

spen666

Legendary Member
I commute at strange times (chef) is my life worth less than someone working nine to five?
Sadly it seems to some people that is the case.

What also seems to be forgotten is outside of the banned hours there would be more lorries on the road than now.

Imagine for simplicity that there are 240 lorries passing along the road in any 24 hour period. If evenly spaced, that would be 10 lorries an hour

If you ban lorries from the roads for say 6 hours a day, then it means there are only 18 hours for those 240 lorry journeys so there will be 13 1/3 journeys per hour in those 18 hours available to the lorries.

Thus to make the roads safer for 6 hours a day you are increasing the danger by increasing the number of lorries by 1/3 outside those hours. Add to this that some of those hours available are the most dangerous as they are night time. You are making the roads much more dangerous for those who ride outside the hours when lorries are banned.



An additional factor is that banning lorries does nothing to deal with the underlying problems. The problem is not lorries per se, it is the attitudes and abilities of those using the roads, whether motorists, cyclists or pedestrians. Banning lorries is dealing with the symptoms rather than the underlying causes.

Perhaps a better way of dealing with the problems would be to look at a system of licencing of HGV in urban areas. The Olympic development used a number of consolidation sites so that less in number, but more fully laden lorries went into the urban areas.

If HGV's had to obtain permits to use Urban roads, then if numbers of permits were limited, it would encourage the consolidation of transport to reduce the number of lorry journeys. The driving standard for those HGV drivers who are licenced should be significantly higher than at present. As there will be fewer drivers permitted to drive in urban areas, it would be possible to insist these have to pass an HGV+ test and have regular training like that given to london transport drivers

We also need to look at the behaviour and attitude of cyclists (and indeed all road users). We need a programme of education and training for road users. I have in mind the old public information films that we used to have on TV - remember Charlie the Cat? The sailor in his sailing dingy etc.

We also need to crackdown on illegal acts by road users, not just red light jumping, but for example the number of cyclists riding without lights, bad driving, bad cycling etc.

Rather than treating road traffic offences as minor matters, they should be treated as "proper" criminal offences. More people are killed on the roads than in Domestic Violence for example yet the police and CPS are forever introducing initiatives in that field and sentencing is increased, but motoring offences are continually downgraded. It is often only a matter of chance that careless driving does not result in a fatality.
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
What also seems to be forgotten is outside of the banned hours there would be more lorries on the road than now.

Imagine for simplicity that there are 240 lorries passing along the road in any 24 hour period. If evenly spaced, that would be 10 lorries an hour

If you ban lorries from the roads for say 6 hours a day, then it means there are only 18 hours for those 240 lorry journeys so there will be 13 1/3 journeys per hour in those 18 hours available to the lorries.

Thus to make the roads safer for 6 hours a day you are increasing the danger by increasing the number of lorries by 1/3 outside those hours. Add to this that some of those hours available are the most dangerous as they are night time. You are making the roads much more dangerous for those who ride outside the hours when lorries are banned.
Which is precisely why I asked you whether you could account for the low cyclist KSI rate in Paris,where HGV is subject to time restrictions. Post #14
 

spen666

Legendary Member
Which is precisely why I asked you whether you could account for the low cyclist KSI rate in Paris,where HGV is subject to time restrictions. Post #14


The KSI rate in Paris is not simply a product of the hours that lorries are allowed in the city. To suggest otherwise is to be so far from the mark.

Would banning lorries at rush hour have saved the cyclist who died under a bus in Croydon?
Would banning lorries at rush hour have saved the cyclist who died under a bus in Holborn outside rush hour?
Would banning lorries at rush hour have saved the cyclist who died under a bus at Aldgate 23:30 at night after apparently riding the wrong way up a one way street?

What would have saved the lives of all these cyclists is better standards of driving and riding on our roads

We need better attitudes towards safety from all road users
 
Top Bottom