Rohloff response Shimano 11-fach Alfine

[zoxed]

I thought that anyone following this new hub gear would be interested in this comment from Rohloff: German / via Google translate

Summary:
Alfine-11-speed complete approx 2100g
Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 TS Version ca. 1900g

 

[MacB]

Interesting and quite believable, I would also question whether published weights include the oil. To be honest 200g isn't enough of a difference for me to leap the £800 gap from Alfine 11 to Rohloff. Comparing the two I find the proven Rohloff track record the only selling point for me, whereas the Alfine 11:-

approx 1/3 of the price

better gear spread for me - as I don't plan any laden touring the extra low gears on the Rohloff seem superflous. In the general riding range there's nothing to choose between the two. The Rohloff would be better if the gear steps were varied but, as it's essentially a 2x7 setup I'm not sure how that could be achieved. The Alfine on a 39/20 setup gives a range of 28 to 115 gear inches, good enough for all the types of riding I do.

shifter options - the Alfine has trigger shifting and will probably get bar end and possibly STI style. Rohloff have no plans, according to them, to explore any new shifter options.

frame and disc fitting on the alfine seem better, or less finicky

weight - it's significantly lighter than the I-9 and I use that with no issues so that's good enough for me


Like most my big concern will be reliability and nothing we can do about that until time reveals the truth.

 

[Moodyman]

Like most my big concern will be reliability and nothing we can do about that until time reveals the truth

The 8-speed Alfine and the Nexus range before it have a reasonable reliability record. Plus the fact that it's from Shimano, there should be no reliability concerns.


Re weight, this is only an issue if you're racing, but hub gear users don't race so that's a non-issue.

 

[MacB]

Like most my big concern will be reliability and nothing we can do about that until time reveals the truth

The 8-speed Alfine and the Nexus range before it have a reasonable reliability record. Plus the fact that it's from Shimano, there should be no reliability concerns.


Re weight, this is only an issue if you're racing, but hub gear users don't race so that's a non-issue.

Agreed, I think the reliability bit could be more of a thing with the sort of super, adventure, type tourers. I doubt it would be an issue for general riding and commuting, ie my intended useage. You could even afford to have a spare wheel, with an Alfine 8, as backup and still only spend half the cost of a Rohloff.

 

[Howard]

Agreed, I think the reliability bit could be more of a thing with the sort of super, adventure, type tourers. I doubt it would be an issue for general riding and commuting, ie my intended useage. You could even afford to have a spare wheel, with an Alfine 8, as backup and still only spend half the cost of a Rohloff.

I was thinking about this the other day as I am building a tourer with an Alfine 8... I'd actually consider carrying the guts of a new hub with me if i was doing something super-crazy. In the event of failure I should just be able to swap the guts out...unless the shell gets mashed too. Or the shell fails. Hmmm. Decisions decisions. Do folks who go mega-touring carry spare mechs / cassettes with them?

 

[MacB]

I was thinking about this the other day as I am building a tourer with an Alfine 8... I'd actually consider carrying the guts of a new hub with me if i was doing something super-crazy. In the event of failure I should just be able to swap the guts out...unless the shell gets mashed too. Or the shell fails. Hmmm. Decisions decisions. Do folks who go mega-touring carry spare mechs / cassettes with them?

As far as I can tell spokes and spare tyre/s seem to be normal, maybe a chain as well. I suppose it depends on how much redundancy a person wants to tote around with them. I know some, with STI/Ergo shifters also carry some bar end shifters as backup, plus spare cable inners. One of the big advantages of the hub gear should be reduced cog and chainring wear. If you make sure they are reversible as well, then carrying spares shouldn't be necessary.

I like your idea of spare inner for a hub but that would depend on where you were touring. If it wasn't remote then you could have a spare wheel on standby at home and get it couriered if need be. But then my idea of touring wouldn't involve tents or loads of baggage, hotels and comfort all the way.

 

[andrew_s]

Interesting and quite believable, I would also question whether published weights include the oil. To be honest 200g isn't enough of a difference for me to leap the £800 gap from Alfine 11 to Rohloff.

The same inclusive or not question applies to the price as well as the weight.
The Rohloff is £900 (non-disc) or £1025 (disc), inclusive of shifter, fitting kit, sprocket etc
The Alfine 11 has a headline price of £375, but that's the bare hub. Once you add the shifter etc it goes up to £450, leaving a price difference of £450-£525.

 

[MacB]

The same inclusive or not question applies to the price as well as the weight.
The Rohloff is £900 (non-disc) or £1025 (disc), inclusive of shifter, fitting kit, sprocket etc
The Alfine 11 has a headline price of £375, but that's the bare hub. Once you add the shifter etc it goes up to £450, leaving a price difference of £450-£525.

The RRP for the Alfine 11 is £374.99, but there are several places advertising it between £300 and £310 and some showing it at full price. I don't know why there should be such a differential on a new product but, as no-one actually seems to have stock yet, I'll wait and see what the actual price is. Agreed about the fitting kit and shifter, I struggle to imagine who would be buying a hub without these bits. I was working on a £380 total for all the kit, and I'm disc only. I think Rohloff may come down a bit and a straight 2:1 comparison could be on the cards.

Any way you cut it the price difference could still buy a decent spare bike, or a top of the range front dynamo wheel, lights and some other nice bits. Gear comparisons between the two give the same sort of spread in the general riding gears. With the Rohloff you seem to get extra high, or extra low, but no extra in the middle. Great if you need those but unlikely to be required for general riding and commuting. As I say we'll have to wait and see on longevity etc.

 

[P.H]

The RRP for the Alfine 11 is £374.99, but there are several places advertising it between £300 and £310 and ....

I think Andrew was right to compare list price with list price.  The Rohloff gets discounted too, though you need to look outside the UK, Bike 24 will do a non disk version for a little over £700. I can't see the price dropping much, quality will always cost and Shimano are unlikely to compete at that level.  The big technical difference is the internal indexing, though it's also why it's unlikely a STI shifter will ever by developed. Indexing has to be the biggest single cause of hub problems, Rohloff know this which is why their hub is like that. That simple shifter will likely last the lifetime of the hub, I doubt that will be the case with a trigger shifter, there's just too much to go wrong with them.  This year I've had the shell of my six year old Rohloff replaced FOC and had to throw away a two year old XT hub.  Rohloff v Shimano it's about more than the product  

Gear comparisons between the two give the same sort of spread in the general riding gears. With the Rohloff you seem to get extra high, or extra low, but no extra in the middle. Great if you need those but unlikely to be required for general riding and commuting.

Well yes, but do people buy Rohloffs for general riding?  For that even the Alfine 8 is a bit overkill for me, I'd be happy with a SRAM P5.  When you look at touring or MTB the 410% is a little short compared to what most people choose given choice.  The big gaps between 1>2 and 10>11 will make them less usable, like a 9 spd with a bail out and an overdrive.  I wouldn't contemplate a touring bike with a bottom gear more than 20"  which with the Alfine 11 would leave me wanting at the top end.  Looks like it's going to be a good hub, but still a fair bit short of offering what a Rohloff does.

 

[P.H]

I was thinking about this the other day as I am building a tourer with an Alfine 8... I'd actually consider carrying the guts of a new hub with me if i was doing something super-crazy. 

Where do you stop?  You could end up carrying a spare bike... then is one spare enough?


If I were to design a bike for exotic touring it would be able to use whatever gearing system the locals use.  The easiest way to do this is to have sliding dropouts. Maybe carry some alternatives though it'd be easy to get them cut in any metal workshop or garage.

 

[Howard]

Where do you stop? You could end up carrying a spare bike... then is one spare enough?

Well yeah, that was kind of my point in the end. It seems like a neat idea, but carry a hub inner then maybe a shell too, and a pulley, and shifter, and...and...

 

[vorsprung]

Alfine 8... I'd actually consider carrying the guts of a new hub with me if i was doing something super-crazy.

Vin Cox set his unsupported circumnavigation record with an Alfine 8 speed bike

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/vin-cox-sets-new-round-the-world-record-27795