Slow Cadence

[S.Giles]

I've noticed that almost every other cycle rider I see has a faster cadence than mine. I just naturally tend to turn the pedals slowly and in a high gear. I heard somewhere that a high cadence is more of a cardio-vascular workout. Is this correct?

I have large leg muscles, but I'm not sure of the cause-and-effect (ie, do I have a slow cadence as a result of my leg muscles, or are my legs the by-product of a slow cadence habit?). Just recently I've occasionally started trying to spin the pedals faster in a lower gear, but to be honest, I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to achieve. It also sometimes feels quite inefficient.

I occasionally have trouble with pain in the tendons behind the knee, but I think I've sorted that out by paying careful attention to saddle height. I assume that a faster cadence would tend to reduce knee problems of this sort, though.

To give some idea, I have a cycle with three chain rings at the front, and an eight-gear cassette. I never use the smallest front chain ring, and generally stick to the highest four gears at the back (even on hills). I don't have tooth ratios to hand, but it's a fairly standard bicycle with 26" wheels.

Any thoughts or advice would be most appreciated!

Steve

 

[ScotiaLass]

Using a higher cadence is less knackering on the knees!
I have arthritis in my knees and find that a drop of 1-2 gears is very comfortable.
Before I did this I would get constant pain, which out me off going out as much as I do now.

How does cadence affect effort, (and exercise)?
However different cadences provide different exercise. A lower cadence will help build muscle mass in your legs, but does less cardiovascular work and so less for your cardiovascular fitness.

Higher cadence provides less resistance to your leg muscles and therefore less muscle training, but provides more aerobic work and is better for your cardiovascular fitness.

Also, as an aside, your cadence can affect your risk of injury. Many cyclists are advised, when they are starting to notice knee pain, that they should increase their cadence and spin faster to reduce the stress on their knees.

 

[jazzkat]

It's a can of worms this.

Until a certain American, who has been erased from the history books, popularised high cadences most cyclist just pushed down on the pedals. Now it is commonplace for everyone to be obsessed with spinning. It's true that by using a high cadence it moves some of the stress away from the leg muscles to the heart and lungs. It will obviously also take some of the stress from the knees, but if you don't have any underlying medical issue I would say that any knee pain is most likely to be a fitting issue.
I spent a lot of time years ago trying to 'improve' my cadence by staying in a lower gear and spinning. I'm not convinced it did anything at all, it certainly made me slower up hills!

When I got into riding fixed a couple of years ago I had no option but to ride the gear you have got on the bike at that time. What I've found is that it makes no difference to my speed which gear I use on the flat I tend to top out at the same speed. At the end of the day there's only so many watts my puny legs will push out and at that point there's no more to go. I have settled on a gear that works for me. Sometimes I grind up a hill, or, usually, I have to stand up (shock horror, another modern cycling faux pas), while sometimes I'm spinning at 25+mph with my legs about to fall off.

I suppose the short answer is if it works for you, do it. Experiment, try something new, but don't get sucked into the thought that it has to be this way or that.

So...... short answer.........what Adrian says^

 

[ScotiaLass]

It's a can of worms this.

Until a certain American, who has been erased from the history books, popularised high cadences most cyclist just pushed down on the pedals. Now it is commonplace for everyone to be obsessed with spinning. It's true that by using a high cadence it moves some of the stress away from the leg muscles to the heart and lungs. It will obviously also take some of the stress from the knees, but if you don't have any underlying medical issue I would say that any knee pain is most likely to be a fitting issue.
I spent a lot of time years ago trying to 'improve' my cadence by staying in a lower gear and spinning. I'm not convinced it did anything at all, it certainly made me slower up hills!

When I got into riding fixed a couple of years ago I had no option but to ride the gear you have got on the bike at that time. What I've found is that it makes no difference to my speed which gear I use on the flat I tend to top out at the same speed. At the end of the day there's only so many watts my puny legs will push out and at that point there's no more to go. I have settled on a gear that works for me. Sometimes I grind up a hill, or, usually, I have to stand up (shock horror, another modern cycling faux pas), while sometimes I'm spinning at 25+mph with my legs about to fall off.

I suppose the short answer is if it works for you, do it. Experiment, try something new, but don't get sucked into the thought that it has to be this way or that.

So...... short answer.........what Adrian says^

Makes sense.
I have arthritic knees so dropping a gear or two is the most comfortable for me but may not suit everyone!

 

[raleighnut]

Makes sense.
I have arthritic knees so dropping a gear or two is the most comfortable for me but may not suit everyone!

Snap I too have Arthritic knees and other than getting seat height right dropping just a gear or 2 helps but not spinning like a mad thing my cadence is 80-90 rpm other than on big hills when its back to the grind.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Until a certain American, who has been erased from the history books, popularised high cadences most cyclist just pushed down on the pedals.

It goes back a bit futher than that. Even though I've long since lost my 1970s copy of "Richard's Bicycle Book" by the late Richard Ballantyne, I can still quote bits of it. Somewhere in it he definitely says "Most cyclists gear too high and pedal too slow".

But really ... whatever works for you and feels right. Unless you're racing and looking to extract every last % of efficiency, in which case an adjustment may, or indeed may not, be advantageous.

 

[S.Giles]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I do get a little knee pain from time to time, but as stated in the original post I've dealt with it by adjusting saddle height.

I don't really know why, but I have very big leg muscles (genetic, possibly). I guess I'm just doing what works for me.

I think I'm comparatively good on hills. Being already in a low cadence helps when standing up. Jazzkat, why do you refer to this as a 'modern cycling faux pas'? Please excuse my ignorance, I thought it was considered OK to stand up on hills.

Steve

 

[S.Giles]

Hi Adrian. That's what I was trying to get at. Why is it considered wrong? I didn't know it was.

Edit: Hi User30090. I nearly always stand up and 'grind' up hills. I've noticed that although some riders whizz past me on the flat, I quite often start to gain on them again during a hill climb. Standing up on a climb feels good to me, I can really get some power into the pedals.

 

[S.Giles]

[QUOTE 3198581, member: 30090"]But this is counter productive, the weight you put into the downstroke pedal is the same weight being carried by the upstroke pedal....[/QUOTE]

I put all my weight on the 'downstroke' pedal and it becomes like a stair-step exercise.

 

[raleighnut]

[QUOTE 3198584, member: 30090"]You sure about that?[/QUOTE]
Try putting the same weight on each pedal, they balance.

 

[raleighnut]

[QUOTE 3198594, member: 30090"]Do you use weight to turn a crank?[/QUOTE]
I tend to use my feet but I put more weight on the right one til it gets to the bottom and then I transfer some weight to the left one for a bit until that gets to the bottom then repeat............................. Works for me

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I used to feel very much the same as the OP; I used to grind and stand up on hills. Then I joined a cycling club and was taught to cycle properly, and spin a much lower gear. It didn't take long for me to realise how wrong I'd been in my impression of myself as a cyclist before. And I became a very strong hill climber (as you'd think I should be from my size and weight), spinning and sitting down and keeping the ability to stand up and add extra power for when it was really needed. In a state of ignorance, 'doing what you feel' is not a good guide to what is effective (or will prevent injury).

 

[Shut Up Legs]

If it works for you, and you don't feel you are hurting your knees, stick with what feels right.

Wot he said ^^^

I also have a lower than usual average cadence, probably only about 70 or so, and my thighs are huge! But with careful bike adjustment, I avoid any muscle and tendon issues with the legs.

 

[raleighnut]

[QUOTE 3198603, member: 30090"]Sorry but that's incorrect, your weight - or more to the point, mass is the constant here - it does not change. The only thing that changes is the power that you put through the crank which in turn creates torque. Standing up, not only are you creating torque to move the bike uphill, you are also doing it to power your other leg and the same mass attached to that leg back through the up stroke.

Hence why it is better to sit down and spin. Standing up you can utilise the core and hip flexors to create more muscle power but this comes as a cost to extra energy being used.[/QUOTE]
1- I don't stand up
2- I use SPD cleats
3- I use pull on the upstroke and sweepback at the bottom so my mass is certainly not powering the other leg as I am pulling up with it.
4-When I did stand pre-SPD I would have no weight on the leg that was travelling upwards, you are right that my mass cannot change but the point where that mass was applied moved quite dramatically and visually.
5-I was agreeing with Adrian, go be pedantic with him!

 

[raleighnut]

Thanks, I shall remember this.

Think nothing of it fella