The Dutch Role Model

[StuartG]

Lo Fidelity & other websites recently posted this Dutch video showing a major reaction against a road user who caused very minor injuries to three cyclists: http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Another example of a nirvana I know I shall never see here in my lifetime. Whilst activists argue for and against vehicular cycling and appropriate infrastructure, investment and all other sorts of things to get more cyclists on the road - one question keeps coming back to me ...

"Why did the Dutch drivers vote for their near extinction?"

Their car culture/modal share was much the same as ours. But the majority voted for the minority and then mostly joined them. Meanwhile in the UK more will say we should pay road tax then have segregated lanes or a law requiring minimum passing distances. Until that attitude changes then nothing significant is going to happen.

So how did the Dutch change it? Thats the 3,000 a year dead question.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

"Why did the Dutch drivers vote for their near extinction?"

I suppose an answer to your question is that most people like to live on streets, and in neighbourhoods, that don't have much traffic on them. That includes 'motorists'.

 

[style over speed]

Lo Fidelity & other websites recently posted this Dutch video showing a major reaction against a road user who caused very minor injuries to three cyclists: http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

Another example of a nirvana I know I shall never see here in my lifetime. Whilst activists argue for and against vehicular cycling and appropriate infrastructure, investment and all other sorts of things to get more cyclists on the road - one question keeps coming back to me ...

"Why did the Dutch drivers vote for their near extinction?"

Their car culture/modal share was much the same as ours. But the majority voted for the minority and then mostly joined them. Meanwhile in the UK more will say we should pay road tax then have segregated lanes or a law requiring minimum passing distances. Until that attitude changes then nothing significant is going to happen.

So how did the Dutch change it? Thats the 3,000 a year dead question.

The dutch drive, they're car ownership is as high as here. They also have lots of motorway and decent roads. Its also nicer to drive there than here. Their whole built environment is nicer, towns are better planned, houses are superior and on bigger plots... and all thats in a small overcrowded country, with little natural resources and at massive risk of flooding.

 

[slowmotion]

There is quite an interesting clip about the way that cycle infrastructure developed in Holland. It may have been posted here before.

[media]

]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrqG0DqkSlw[/media]

 

[Dayvo]

My brother lived in southern Holland for three years.

He was told by his workmates that he could speed, drive through a red light, be stoned or drunk, BUT if he should be involved in an incident/accident with a cyclist, then he was the people's enemy no. 1!

The first bit was probably an exaggeration, but the last bit, most definitely not.

 

[dellzeqq]

I think that those of us who see Holland as a mix of great art and high times forget that it's a Calvinist country. People are held accountable for their deeds. There's a good deal more about Dutch civil society, a greater communal purpose than there is the English equivalent.

I'm not sure that it's altogether a good thing, but there's certainly a far higher expectation of people. There's also a fantastic disputatiousness - I shudder to think what the Dutch equivalent of Cycle Chat is like. The responses to the article in the paper are, perhaps, a product of this greater civility and argumentativeness.

And, lest we forget, the Dutch are fond of bicycles. They're an emblem, one of many, that goes back to the last war. On the other hand, skating goes back hundreds of years. Pity the poor driver who, somehow, kills a skater.....

 

[Davidc]

In August 2001 I got hit by a car while on a hired bike in Scheveningen, (not far from the tram terminus at the end of the seafront if you know the place). No injuries or damage and at very slow speed, but I fell off.

The car went to drive off, it was surrounded by what can best be described as a 'baying mob' before I could get up. They wouldn't let the car go anywhere until the Politie had turned up.

The car driver was fined for the equivalent of driving away after an accident. Quite a large amount.

The attitude was totaly different to anything you'd expect here. Total outrage from everyone. Made worse when he said "... but it was only a bicycle and he's alright, he's standing up".

The car and its driver weren't Dutch. Who can guess which country they came from?

 

[User169]

In August 2001 I got hit by a car while on a hired bike in Scheveningen, (not far from the tram terminus at the end of the seafront if you know the place). No injuries or damage and at very slow speed, but I fell off.

The car went to drive off, it was surrounded by what can best be described as a 'baying mob' before I could get up. They wouldn't let the car go anywhere until the Politie had turned up.

The car driver was fined for the equivalent of driving away after an accident. Quite a large amount.

The attitude was totaly different to anything you'd expect here. Total outrage from everyone. Made worse when he said "... but it was only a bicycle and he's alright, he's standing up".

The car and its driver weren't Dutch. Who can guess which country they came from?

Allegedly, during WW2, suspected German spies were asked to say "Scheveningen". Get the pronunciation wrong and you were summarily shot.

 

[Davidc]

Belgium?

Sorry, wrong!

Do I get the impression you're not over impressed with the driving in your host country?

 

[Davidc]

Allegedly, during WW2, suspected German spies were asked to say "Scheveningen". Get the pronunciation wrong and you were summarily shot.

I was told by my brother's next door neighbours that I'd have failed the test. They were very upset though when they heard I'd been knocked off a bike while in NL, but seemed to think that coming from GB I was probably used to it! That's our reputation there.

 

[dellzeqq]

The car and its driver weren't Dutch. Who can guess which country they came from?

please........nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

I stand corrected on the religion thingy.....

 

[StuartG]

The switch from bike to car in the 1950/60s was similar to the UK. What was the cause of a motorcentric society to put itself into reverse?

It is that underlying motive that I am trying to unearth is what caused the reappraisal in the latter half of the 20C. Why did it happen there and could it happen here?

Not methinks if we don't understand it.

Most of the stuff I read is about how the Dutch & Danish changed. But not why - beyond vague remarks that it is logical to use bikes when the alternative is car congestion. But as the UK has that in spades we know that in itself it does not change behaviour.

What does? We can speculate - but is it there published research?

 

[Davidc]

please........nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

I stand corrected on the religion thingy.....

dell, you haven't made a suggestion, methinks you're jumping to conclusions.

 

[dellzeqq]

dell, you haven't made a suggestion, methinks you're jumping to conclusions.

you asked us to guess and I feared the worst......English?

 

[mickle]

Bicycle Mania by Shirley Agudo published by Scriptum (ISBN 978-90-55-94-698-3) would be a really good place to start.

I've a copy which I haven't read yet - I really should since that was probably their primary motive for sending me a copy...

I shall read it and let you know.