Visibility

[Alex321]

Where do we stop? Knee pads, inflatable bump suits, cycles only in yellow, no cycling after dark just in case?

We stop where common sense dictates.

If the conditions are such that most motor vehicles are driving with lights on, then we should be putting them on when cycling as well.

If your personal common sense says it is better to have them on all the time, by all means do so, although I think they make little difference in clear daylight conditions.

If you feel you are likely to frequently come in contact with the ground, then knee pads may well be a good idea for you - most mountain bikers do wear them, most road cyclists don't see the need.

 

[Alex321]

Some car manufacturer has decided that cars need to put on inappropriately bright lights on unnecessary occasions so now as a cyclist I need to put on inappropriately bright and flashing lights?

I am not aware of any car manufacturer which has done that. Which one are you talking about?

Under streetlights they're not needed and without streetlights, reflectors do a fine job. Bright lights are dazzling and distracting, I'd happily take a sledgehammer to the lot of them. Bike lights should be calibrated to the brightness of a single 1980s Ever Ready and no more.

How very silly that would be.

As well as (rightly) illegal.

 

[PaulSB]

Yes, turning the roads into an overstimulating sensory nightmare makes it safer for everybody.

That is not what I posted. My point is to be visible and as you'll see from my later post I'm against cyclists, and motorists, who think it necessary to use a mobile searchlight.

There are far too many cyclists riding around with utterly ridiculous and dangerously high levels of lighting, usually on the front. I'd place those riders the same category as drivers who think high intensity lights help everyone. They don't.

 

[Alex321]

Yes, turning the roads into an overstimulating sensory nightmare makes it safer for everybody.

I have seen nobody suggesting that should happen.

 

[winjim]

That is not what I posted. My point is to be visible and as you'll see from my later post I'm against cyclists, and motorists, who think it necessary to use a mobile searchlight.

There are far too many cyclists riding around with utterly ridiculous and dangerously high levels of lighting, usually on the front. I'd place those riders the same category as drivers who think high intensity lights help everyone. They don't.

The trouble is, one follows from the other. We see many threads saying that cyclists need two or more of the very brightest lights they can find. Encouraging use of lights leads to use of inappropriate lights, including misaligned front lights with ridiculous dazzling beam patterns.

I don't think we are in disagreement on this.

 

[Alex321]

The trouble is, one follows from the other. We see many threads saying that cyclists need two or more of the very brightest lights they can find.

Do we?

I know I haven't been here all that long, but I have never seen such a thread.

You do need a reasonably bright front light if you are riding on unlit rural roads, and want to be able to ride at speeds not too far below what you would do in daylight. I have a 1600 lumen front light for precisely that reason.

But other than that, moderately bright lights are absolutely fine, preferably flashing when they are for purposes of increasing your visibility. My rear light is only 25 lumens, and I am confident that is plenty to be seen by.

Encouraging use of lights leads to use of inappropriate lights, including misaligned front lights with ridiculous dazzling beam patterns.

I don't think we are in disagreement on this.

I don't agree that it "encourages" it. I do agree that there are certainly some (both on bikes and motor vehicles) whose lights are far brighter than necessary and/or misaligned to cause dazzle to other road users. I do not believe that the fact some get it badly wrong is a reason to discourage the use of lights though.

 

[PaulSB]

The trouble is, one follows from the other. We see many threads saying that cyclists need two or more of the very brightest lights they can find. Encouraging use of lights leads to use of inappropriate lights, including misaligned front lights with ridiculous dazzling beam patterns.

I don't think we are in disagreement on this.

You're right we aren't in disagreement and on second reading I realised I had misunderstood you. Apologies for being a touch brisk in my reply.

Mainly I ride for leisure in daylight but I have commuted in urban and rural unlit areas. To my mind all that is required is correctly aligned lights of reasonable intensity. My front light of choice will light up the road in the same way as dipped car headlights. Nothing more is needed.

The suggestions I read for more powerful lighting, multiple lights running at the same time etc. make me despair.

 

[Alex321]

You're right we aren't in disagreement and on second reading I realised I had misunderstood you. Apologies for being a touch brisk in my reply.

Mainly I ride for leisure in daylight but I have commuted in urban and rural unlit areas. To my mind all that is required is correctly aligned lights of reasonable intensity. My front light of choice will light up the road in the same way as dipped car headlights. Nothing more is needed.

Agreed. Mine is slightly less than a modern car's dipped headlights. Fairly similar to what some older cars will have. And that is enough for me to be comfortable at 20-25mph,l or a bit more on a road I know fairly well.

The suggestions I read for more powerful lighting, multiple lights running at the same time etc. make me despair.

They would me, though as I say above, I haven't seen much suggestion of that.

 

[T4tomo]

Visibility? In my experience pedestrians, cyclists and drivers are all guilty of failing to make themselves visible and to take appropriate care at all times. This does not mean anyone makes themselves responsible for the failures of others who don't see us it's simply self preservation.

I don't wear or advocate hi viz but do wear brightly coloured clothing usually in block colours as I believe a solid block of colour stands out better than multi-coloured clothing. I wouldn't wear all black, never a black jersey or jacket, and while I have many friends who do I feel wearing black is foolish. My cycling buddies are well aware of this.

There are far too many cyclists riding around with utterly ridiculous and dangerously high levels of lighting, usually on the front. I'd place those riders the same category as drivers who think high intensity lights help everyone. They don't.

I'm in the same camp as PaulSB.
Common sense. pretty much all my cycling tops are quite bright, it part "fashion" choice but defo a nod to "be seen". My go to Winter jersey when visibility is more of an issue on gloomy days on country lanes is a La Vie Clare one. Similarly I will run a small blinker light set on gloomy days.

There are two types of lights:

• Be seen lights - which absolutely do not need to be the wattage of the moon. in a "busy" town centre with a lot of other lights then your light being flashing or moving (light or reflector on spokes or tyre valve etc) is helpful in same manner as pedal reflectors
• See lights - unlit country lanes etc you do need a bright light to see pot holes etc. But they should be pointed down at the road and not be flashing, otherwise its very tricky to judge where the cyclist is and what speed they are moving at.

It used to annoy the heck out of me cycling in London with muppets with a 2000 lumen flashing front light pointing into fellow cyclist faces.

 

[vickster]

It used to annoy the heck out of me cycling in London with muppets with a 2000 lumen flashing front light pointing into fellow cyclist faces.

Plenty of those still, plus the muppets with super bright lights on their helmets! Who still don’t get the message when you have to shield your eyes and tell them to turn their farking lights down!

 

[DaveReading]

Either there is a correlation between taking measures to ensure (or improve) your visibility and the likelihood of being hit in a SMIDSY, or there isn't.

Can anyone point to a rigorous study that illuminates (sorry!) the debate?

 

[winjim]

Either there is a correlation between taking measures to ensure (or improve) your visibility and the likelihood of being hit in a SMIDSY, or there isn't.

Can anyone point to a rigorous study that illuminates (sorry!) the debate?

Common sense innit.

 

[winjim]

Do we?

I know I haven't been here all that long, but I have never seen such a thread.

You do need a reasonably bright front light if you are riding on unlit rural roads, and want to be able to ride at speeds not too far below what you would do in daylight. I have a 1600 lumen front light for precisely that reason.

But other than that, moderately bright lights are absolutely fine, preferably flashing when they are for purposes of increasing your visibility. My rear light is only 25 lumens, and I am confident that is plenty to be seen by.



I don't agree that it "encourages" it. I do agree that there are certainly some (both on bikes and motor vehicles) whose lights are far brighter than necessary and/or misaligned to cause dazzle to other road users. I do not believe that the fact some get it badly wrong is a reason to discourage the use of lights though.

Again I'm not sure we are entirely in disagreement but your op came across as extremely combative, boldly telling people what they should and shouldn't do. Possibly because I have autistic sensory issues but I find bright and flashing lights overwhelming at times which obviously doesn't improve the safety of my riding or driving so I have very strong opinions on this subject.

I mention pedal reflectors as you brought up illegality. They are a legal requirement at night, however lights in poor visibility due to foul weather are not, which is a situation in which automatic vehicle lights will activate.

 

[ianrauk]

Plenty of those still, plus the muppets with super bright lights on their helmets! Who still don’t get the message when you have to shield your eyes and tell them to turn their farking lights down!

I remember telling one plonker at a set of lights with a silly bright helmet light that he was blinding people and no need for urban riding. His reply... you're not the first person to say that.

 

[T4tomo]

I remember telling one plonker at a set of lights with a silly bright helmet light that he was blinding people and no need for urban riding. His reply... you're not the first person to say that.

I don't ever really advocate punching the terminally stupid, but he'd push me close....