Road Cycling Safety BBC radio 5 discussion

[summerdays]

Did anyone hear the phone in this morning on BBC 5 live radio with Nicky Campbell?

They had a driver from Devon, a cyclist and a lorry driver. I don't want to be harsh but the cyclist's arguement was weak from the outset. He said it was fine for the cyclist to skip a red light to get a head start on the traffic waiting at the lights and then said he prefers cycling on the pavements.

Is this the voice we cyclists want to put forward our case for safety on the road? Maybe he was a little less articulate than he could have been but surely his line of arguement was flawed?

If you heard the piece on the radio what did you think?

Here are some of the issues that were brought up by the discussion

Do you run red lights?
Cycle the wrong way up one-way streets?
Give hand signals when turning?
Do you find when at lights traffic is very aggresive when the lights change to green?

I don't think I would want to hear it if being represented by someone showing the bad side of cycling.

As to the questions
No
No (unless exempted)
Yes and No (depends on the situation)
Didn't understand the last one but if you meant do I try and race a car across the lights then yes, but only from the point of view I start much quicker than a car.

And then ask all the questions to car drivers and they wouldn't be lily white either a number of them. But I would also add in the questions have they used a mobile when driving and do they drive with faulty lights as well.

I doubt most people are perfect, however the standards I believe are slipping. A quick check outside my front door and there are 3 vehicles parked with 80% of the car on the pavement completely blocking the pavement. They assume they won't get caught, that they haven't inconvienced anyone - my son had to go on the road to get past one on the way to school.

 

[Zorro]

To be fair the 'plank' was on about slightly jumping red lights to get ahead start from the car behind. Still not obeying the Highway code but not the same as just ignoring them.
I know I start to go on Amber/get ready to go but by the time I actually get going its green!

But he still was condoning jumping the lights AND did say he prefered cycling on the pavement!

I don't want to have to dodge pedestrians on the road so I would never cycle on the pavement. If I need to, I hop off the bike and become a pedestrian. (Not to mention riding curbs is not good for rims!)

 

[magnatom]

To be fair the 'plank' was on about slightly jumping red lights to get ahead start from the car behind. Still not obeying the Highway code but not the same as just ignoring them.
I know I start to go on Amber/get ready to go but by the time I actually get going its green!

There is no need to do that either. Just slot a couple of cars back from the front. I've been doing it for a few years now and I've never had any problems.

 

[Zorro]

Didn't understand the last one but if you meant do I try and race a car across the lights then yes, but only from the point of view I start much quicker than a car.

Sorry ! I meant to say do you find car drivers very aggressive at the lights. i.e. As soon as the lights change from red they rev and honk thier horn before you even have a chance to lift up your standing foot to pedal?

 

[summerdays]

Sorry ! I meant to say do you find car drivers very aggressive at the lights. i.e. As soon as the lights change from red they rev and honk thier horn before you even have a chance to lift up your standing foot to pedal?

In that case only when the car is in the ASL by a long way, and I saw it go in after the lights changed. In those circumstances I sometimes seem to be a bit daydreamy, and slow at getting the pedal ready.

 

[Zorro]

Sorry for my ignorance but what does ASL stand for?

 

[swee'pea99]

Anti Sycling League - they're a bunch of militant motorists who can't spell.

 

[Zorro]

[quote name='swee'pea99']Anti Sycling League - they're a bunch of militant motorists who can't spell.[/quote]

Nice! Like it

 

[summerdays]

Advanced Stop Lines (I like them - Magnatom doesn't). Though he has a point in that some cyclists will do anything to get into them... I use them when its safe to get to and more when I also know the light sequence well.

For example at the end of my road, there are 2 sets ... if you aren't in the first 50m you won't get though in 1 sequence and some cars have to wait upto 4 or 5 sequences to join the main road. I know that they are linked to the ones 200m up the road... I just watch the pedestrian light at those lights - when it turns red I know I need to stop filtering forward and rejoin the line of cars. It usually get through in 1 sequence max two.

 

[Nigeyy]

Magnatom,

you know, I agree with you probably 99.99% of the time, but this one for me doesn't quite ring true. Now granted I don't think I've ever had cause to run a red in good old Blighty, but I do so over here in the States due to a combination of factors (though I should add very, very rarely).

I know, I know, this board is a UK board so my opinion is a little irrelevant, but I think the whole principle is that ultimately you have to work out the safest option for yourself -and sometimes rules aren't applicable for your safety 100% of the time. Assuming you have a good head on your shoulders, YOU are the best safety advocate for yourself. I'm not trying to promote running reds (even in the States) but I will definitely state sometimes -and usually very infrequently for me -it is a good idea to do so after weighing up all the options carefully.

Until I started living over in the good Ole US of A and experiencing the road design and driving habits, I never thought I would have written the above!

[ducks flak]

Yours toshfully,

Nigeyy

I just want to put the record straight here, so I apologise if I shout a little....

Cyclists Do NOT need to run red lights to be safe! To say other wise is utter utter tosh!!

Carry on!

 

[garrilla]

Sorry for my ignorance but what does ASL stand for?

I prefer to call them 178 boxes after "Rule 178 of the Huighway Code"

178

Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10, 36(1) & 43(2)]

 

[Zorro]

garrilla,

Thanks for that explaination. Very comprehensive especially with the diagram. It's just a pity that in London more than half the time the ASL (or 178) is encroached by a motorist

 

[ChrisKH]

garrilla,

Thanks for that explaination. Very comprehensive especially with the diagram. It's just a pity that in London more than half the time the ASL (or 178) is encroached by a motorist

Or motorbikes, more like.

 

[magnatom]

No flak Nigeyy . I have absolutely no experience of cycling in the US so I would be wrong to disagree with you. I would be interested though for you to explain a situation where you feel running a red would help. Is it because of the difference in road traffic laws/rules?

 

[magnatom]

I should add that there is one proviso to my 'never need to run a red light comment'

Should some nutter behind me to put his foot down, ignore my presence and decide to run a red light whilst driving over the top of me, I reserve the right to run a red light!