A salutary tale

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vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
A colleague of mine is known as an aficionado of all turf matters and regularly made steady gains via the turf accountants. He appeared to be a steady, entertaining and reliable chap and, five or six years before his retirement came up with an 'alternative investment '.

Basically if he was entrusted with a sum of money, he would use a fixed fraction of the capital to place a bet, and the profits returned to the pot. Around a dozen colleagues handed money over and regular updates and notifications of horses about to be gambled upon were named along with the races and things seemed hunky dory with annual returns of around 15%.

Just over a year ago he went on the sick suffering from stress though many of us thought that he was swinging the lead. One colleague got a bit twitchy because of the illness and had his investment returned during the summer holidays. The gambling colleague returned to work but was asked for the return of another colleagues stake and profit. Shortly afterwards another sick note materialised.

Three weeks ago members of the syndicate received a strange email which claimed that they had been asked about extending the period of operation to summer 2012 and, because no-one had responded, he'd locked the money into investments redeemable no sooner than summer 2012.

Alarm bells rang for me and I strongly challenged his assertions about the consultation and asked for a return of my stake and profits only to have my assertions challenged, a promise to reimburse me within three months and a cursory "after which there will be no further need for us communicate" closing comment. I was also removed as a friend from his Facebook profile and he's blocked his profile to me.

The fan was well and truly hit with manure when a colleague persisted in his request to have his, <gulp>, investment of, <gulps and wipes brow> £25,000 only to be told that the money wasn't there as it had been invested in a property development company which had gone bankrupt....................

There's a total of £46,000 unaccounted for.

Thing is we don't believe the tale of the loss. There has been a promise of reimbursement by Easter 2011 which coincides with a potential early retirement and the receipt of a lump sum greatly in excess of liabilities. At the moment the police have not been involved. His wife is oblivious to his misdemeanors and the true cause of his stress. He's at the point of losing the lot - his wife, the adulation of his kids, the respect of his peers and a comfortable pension - he'll have to exchange some of his annual pension for an enhanced lump sum. We have elected to wait and see what happens at lump sum time.

it's unlikely that we will ever see him again in his capacity as a teacher. Financially he's stuffed, we have theories as to where some of the money has ended - up several kids in university at the same time and one of them in a year out in a very expensive country have been postulated as some of the expenditure but we'll never know.

I can afford to live with the loss - roughly the same as an entry level mountain bike but I will pursue matters until I have satisfaction.

I do feel sad for the perpetrator. His health has suffered, his career has come to an ignoble end and he'll never experience the glowing testimonials and substantial leaving present that someone with his length of service and seniority could expect. He has lost a lot of friends and must live with the spectre of his wife finding out even if she doesn't challenge his smaller than expected lump sum.

I count my blessings that I never treated the 'investment' as being an additional pension fund like some of my colleagues.

It will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next six months.

It's a good job I'm easily distracted. I have just acquired an iPhone and Angry Birds in monopolising my idel moments so I can't stew over the matter.
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Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
.... didn't any of the investors understand that betting on horses is a sure-fire way of losing, not making, money... the only people who make a living are the bookies... sounds like the only thing he's guilty of is misplaced optimism! Is this a wind-up?
 
Yep. Losing money by gambling - so what's new? You and your hapless colleague will have little redress in law since gambling debts are excluded from such things as Law of Contract. Good Luck!
 
The promise of reimbursement by next Easter sounds like a delaying tactic, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Reading between the lines from the circumstances you describe, I'd hazard a guess your colleague has a debt / gambling problem and has fraudulently stuffed his work mates to the tune of 46k. A clear abuse of trust.

A visit to the local constabulary is in order.
 
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vernon

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
.... didn't any of the investors understand that betting on horses is a sure-fire way of losing, not making, money... the only people who make a living are the bookies... sounds like the only thing he's guilty of is misplaced optimism! Is this a wind-up?


There is a small number of punters who can make a living from the horses - if they can find bookies willing to take the bets. The bookies are generally the winners like you said. My colleague used Betfair where he was effectively a bookie and made regular profits.

The sums at stake(sic) are real. I'm lucky in that I punted what I could afford to lose.
 
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vernon

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
Yep. Losing money by gambling - so what's new? You and your hapless colleague will have little redress in law since gambling debts are excluded from such things as Law of Contract. Good Luck!

I'm not looking for sympathy as I haven't lost a lot. My loss comes to what I've lost at three race meetings. The financial model is more complex that losing it on the horses. The majority of the money was meant to be in a high yield building society account with a percentage used for gambling and the profits added to the building society account. There is more to the matter than I think I'll ever know and eight other people have a lot more to lose than me. I was gob smacked when I learned of the £25k stake.
 
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vernon

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
The promise of reimbursement by next Easter sounds like a delaying tactic, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Reading between the lines from the circumstances you describe, I'd hazard a guess your colleague has a debt / gambling problem and has fraudulently stuffed his work mates to the tune of 46k. A clear abuse of trust.

A visit to the local constabulary is in order.

Next Easter is retirement and lump sum time. We are of the opinion that there's nothing to gained by pressing for reimbursement before then as there's no tangible assets other than the family home.

It's a clear abuse of trust. The chap in question is deluding himself by being 'grateful for the understanding that his friends have shown in these difficult times'

I find it entertaining in a strange sort of way.
 

Vapin' Joe

Formerly known as Smokin Joe
I bet on horses now and again, but any money I put on is written off as lost when I place the bet. My modest stake on a Yankee buys me an afternoons entertainment in front of Channel 4's racing, and any winnings are a nice bonus.

Betting money you can't afford to lose is a mugs game.
 
Next Easter is retirement and lump sum time. We are of the opinion that there's nothing to gained by pressing for reimbursement before then as there's no tangible assets other than the family home.

It's a clear abuse of trust. The chap in question is deluding himself by being 'grateful for the understanding that his friends have shown in these difficult times'

I find it entertaining in a strange sort of way.

From what you describe, this screams of theft / deception. It's commendable that you're giving him the opportunity to pay it all back come Easter but I suspect you'll all be disappointed.

Out of curiosity, did anybody else have access to the account run by this bloke or was he trusted with sole control.
 

Norm

Guest
There is a small number of punters who can make a living from the horses - if they can find bookies willing to take the bets.
When I was at Uni, a friend on our course was as very committed player on the ponies. He'd study form in intense detail, and he'd back something most every day, often attended the meetings. The bit we always ribbed him about was that he logged everything in a little blue book. Literally everything, names, opponents, stakes, prices, conditions, the lot.

When we were in the last year at Uni, we got him to add it all up and see how much he had bet over 10+ years (he used to get his old man to place the bets before he was old enough) and whether he was up or down. I can't remember the total that he had put on horses but I do remember him proudly announcing to the world that he had made money. He wouldn't admit how much money for a long time, so we thought it would be an embarrassingly large amount. After about 3 months of badgering him, we eventually got him drunk enough to confess it was under a pound.

So, over ten years, probably putting down £5k, he'd made a quid.
 
Very similar scenario to a former colleague, made out he was making money on the horses, got himself in the sh1t up to and including visits from very bulky persons, borrowed money from all and sundry including the chairman of a committee (he was in local government). Ended up bankrupt, trail of huge debts behind him, lost his £35k job, his house, his wife and two kids. Now works in a taxi office earning peanuts and has to beg for a bed from those who will still put up with him.

I've never bet on anything and and by far the richer for it in every respect. If you think anyone can make consistant money betting on horses than consider the extremely apt old adage, "You'll never see a bookie on a bike."

Gordon
 
I've never bet on anything and and by far the richer for it in every respect. If you think anyone can make consistant money betting on horses than consider the extremely apt old adage, "You'll never see a bookie on a bike."
Me neither. Perhaps the more diplomatic version, for CycleChat, ought to be "You'll never see a bookie on the bus..." :smile:
 

mark barker

New Member
Location
Swindon, Wilts
Thing is we don't believe the tale of the loss. There has been a promise of reimbursement by Easter 2011 which coincides with a potential early retirement and the receipt of a lump sum greatly in excess of liabilities. At the moment the police have not been involved. His wife is oblivious to his misdemeanors and the true cause of his stress. He's at the point of losing the lot - his wife, the adulation of his kids, the respect of his peers and a comfortable pension - he'll have to exchange some of his annual pension for an enhanced lump sum. We have elected to wait and see what happens at lump sum time.

I do feel sad for the perpetrator. His health has suffered, his career has come to an ignoble end and he'll never experience the glowing testimonials and substantial leaving present that someone with his length of service and seniority could expect. He has lost a lot of friends and must live with the spectre of his wife finding out even if she doesn't challenge his smaller than expected lump sum.
It would seem that he has tried the age old method of trying to "fix" a crap situation with a great plan that nearly always makes things worse. Desperate people do desperate things, and I'm not suggesting that you should all forgive and forget, but in reality is there any point in ruining the blokes (and potentially his wifes) already crap life in a bid to recoup the investment? Right now I guess he is in a really bad place personally, and maybe a friend that accepts him for what he is and what he has done might be able to help him?



I'm not looking for sympathy as I haven't lost a lot. My loss comes to what I've lost at three race meetings. The financial model is more complex that losing it on the horses. The majority of the money was meant to be in a high yield building society account with a percentage used for gambling and the profits added to the building society account. There is more to the matter than I think I'll ever know and eight other people have a lot more to lose than me. I was gob smacked when I learned of the £25k stake.
I've heard of a few people that run schemes like this.... They invest a fair sum of money and bet using the interest on the investment and the winnings. None of them have made a fortune, but they see it as a risk free way of betting as their original investment is safe. £25K is a big wager though!
 

slugonabike

New Member
Location
Bournemouth
I might be prepared to let a small sum go on the basis that the stress trying, fruitlessly, to recover it would do me more harm than good. However, if we were talking £25,000 I'd want his head on a plate if the money was not forthcoming, upsetting his wife and family wouldn't be the half of it! The man has already proved himself a liar and a cheat, I hope no-one is holding their breath waiting for the April payout ...
 

mark barker

New Member
Location
Swindon, Wilts
However, if we were talking £25,000 I'd want his head on a plate if the money was not forthcoming, upsetting his wife and family wouldn't be the half of it!
How would you feel if you followed this to the end, pressed criminal charges and took everything from the guy, only to read in the local newspaper later that week that a he (a former friend) had committed suicide following the investigation? Happy to have your money back now?
 
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