Advice Regarding Touring

[Peter10]

Hello all,

As some of you may have already seen, I am relatively new to cycling (well I have cycled for years but only on MTB's and silly little journeys). I have now started commuting pretty much every day and I try to get a few 15+ mile rides in a month when I can. I have read a lot on here about touring and would like to give it a go at some point before work takes over my life completely. Preferably, I would like to get out of the country, Spain, Italy, France etc and see some of the world. I have read the Touring Tips, but I would like to ask a few things.

I know the first thing I will need is a more specific bike for touring, unless I can adapt a normal road bike easily? (mudguards, tyres, panniers etc) However, could this cause issues for a bike that is designed to be light as possible, will heavy panniers cause too much stress? Any advice on this, or recommendations for a touring bike? I assume I will want a triple for those long uphill climbs with a lot of luggage on the back also?

Also, my fitness isn't what it was 4-5 years ago when I played sport pretty much every day so I will have to work on that, but to what degree is "fit" for a tour? I.E how many miles a day is good pace over a 2 week trip where the distance is meaningful not a trip around the block?

My main though is; how hard is it to get your bike to said destination? If I were to go to Spain, how would I get it over there without having to get one of those flight cases which then means I have to find somewhere to store it.

I would work out the equipment I need closer to the time, but I figure if I start training now, I could be ready for next summer (or this time next year if going somewhere warmer as I don't do heat well).

Also, how many of you guys & girls go touring alone? Nobody I know cycles. In fact, people still recoil in horror when I cycle into work at 4am or cycle home at midnight or later. I don't want that stopping me, but has anyone had any issues going alone on a tour which put them off doing it again?

I'm sure I would think of more as I read more about peoples experiences on tours but if anyone could help me out on those things I would appreciate it a lot.


Pete

 

[Crankarm]

Just go for as many long rides as possible. This will give you an idea of what you are capable of. Start with a shorter distance say 50 miles then when you feel more confident extend it a little more and so on until you can ride your loded bike 70-80 miles I day, a few 100 miles just in case to plan for unforeseen circumstances. But keep riding the 50 - 60 milers to keep your endurance up. It really is that simple. Touring in Spain France Italy you won't need a dedicated touring bike ie an expedition bike but something like a Dawes Galaxy that has front and rear bosses to mount pannier racks. Using a road bike is only a good idea if you are able to travel light, very light. But if you intend camping, cooking for yourself, etc then get a touring bike. Perhaps you can pick something up second hand in the classifieds here or on other cycling forums, Cycling Weekly or even the dreaded eBay? What ever you do it really is simple. Start small and just work up. You have plenty of time before your anticipated tour to see what works for you. Don't try to make things too complicated.

Have you considered ferry to Spain or train? You could train it down to Biarritz then cycle into Spain or cycle from one of the French Channel ports down through France to Spain or Italy?

Touring alone is preferrable IMHO. If you tour with some one else you HAVE to be very compatible and very similar cycling abilities otherwise it is just a recipe for tantrums and tears.

This site has a wealth of information of touring cyclists :

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=3Tzut&page_id=77471&v=t

Warning : You can lose hours/days/weeks reading the journals.

There are also lots of articles on all aspects of cycle touring from tackling vicious dogs or bears, to the best kit, or to visa requirements.

 

[snorri]

Preferably, I would like to get out of the country, Spain, Italy, France etc and see some of the world.

Some thoughts on the issues you raise....
I haven't been to Spain or Italy, but if you only have a fortnight, the travelling time to these countries would be eating in to your cycling time.
Consider The Netherlands and Denmark, both can be reached by direct ferry services from the UK, and both cater well for cyclists with regard to mapping, campsites, dedicated cycle routes etc. Germany is also cycle friendly.
Heavy panniers will definitely stress a "road" bike, a touring bike, as the name suggests, is preferable.
A daily mileage of 40-60 miles is fine, that will allow you time to enjoy your surroundings. It's a tour, a holiday, not an endurance event! One of the joys of touring is the freedom to travel as far or as little as you wish every day.
Most vehicle ferries from the UK to mainland Europe also carry bicycles, (some are freight only)and this is a stress free mode of travel, just cycle on and cycle off with little delay at the terminals.
Why consider Spain if you don't do heat? There are more easily reached and cooler locations.
Training? Shock horror, that could involve perspiration, I wouldn't know anything about that sort of thing, quite unneccessary, you become fitter painlessly as your tour progresses.
Solo touring is very common, there are many advantages and few downsides.
Googling Dutch/Danish/German cycling, will throw up a few sites to peruse. Google 'Bikeline' for routes in Germany.
I would suggest following the LF1 route from Den Helder in the Netherlands to Boulogne in France as a gentle introduction to foreign touring.
Consider going over on one ferry route and back on another, two single tickets can be as cheap as returns.
You are unlikely to have any language problems in any of the countries bordering the North Sea.

 

[sgw]

Some good advice as usual from CA there.

Don't let the mileages put you off though. If you want to tot up miles, capitals or even countries, per day, week or tour you would of course need to cover such mileages. For myself I usually find something every 20 - 30 miles or so of sufficient interest to loose a couple of hours or half a day. That's UK though, there are areas where I would want to cover far greater distances in Europe, but I would get a train to the next area of interest. I can cover 60 miles a day with full kit if I need to but I rarely do.

I also like touring alone very much. I wouldn't say I prefer it (my partner is looking over my shoulder ) but it is for me a totally different experience. It is a very rare thing these days to be alone, a long way from home and dependent on the resources you carry. Once the initial strangeness of that passes, It is a unique and tremendously rewarding and confidence building experience. The downside is the experiences that you might feel you would like to share, as well as someone to carry half the tent of course. If it's personal safety your concerned about, again I can only speak of the UK. My experience of solo touring in Europe being so long ago as to be irrelevant by now. Plenty of people do it though. In UK I will go anywhere alone and while having very demanding standards for camping spots I can still find very nice pitches even quite close to cities if need be. I avoid commercial camp sites as much as possible.

I think you first thoughts should be towards what you want to get out touring, are you looking to visit lots of different places in a short time, or are you wanting to meet people, and experience as much as possible of the areas you travel through, or somewhere in between? Camping or B&B/hostels/hotels? These decisions will affect your choice of bike, quick and light or steady and strong.

 

[HelenD123]

Decide what type of touring you want to do. Are you just in it for the cycling and want to get your head down and do as many miles as possible, or do you want to see places along the way. I'm definitely the latter and aim for around 60 miles a day now I'm fit. However, I tried to do 60 miles a day last summer and it was too much. Don't expect to do the same distances loaded as unloaded and don't forget you'll be doing it day after day. I'd recommend planning some flexibility into your route so you can stop if you see something interesting or if the weather is foul.

Re travelling alone, I've cycled most of Canada on my own and it's been absolutely fine. The bike is a real icebreaker so there's always someone wanting to chat. It's difficult finding someone compatible to tour with. Not only do you have to have the same cycling ability and speed, you also have to have the same touring style. It's no good touring with someone who wants to be on the road at 7am if you like a more leisurely start to the day. You also need to be on a similar budget and want to stay in the same sort of accommodation i.e. free camping, campsites, B&B etc.

As for the bike, I suspect a road bike will only work if you're not carrying full camping and cooking gear. It would crumble into a heap under the weight I carry!

 

[andym]

First off you don't need to buy a new bike (unless of course you can afford to/want to). A decent hardtail MTB with rackmounts will be fine for touring.

I'd definitelt recommend going for weekends in the UK. there's lots and lots of great cycling in the UK.

Fifty miles a day is a perfectly reasonable rule of thumb.

Two weeks in Spain or Italy is feasible, but sadly, probably only really if you fly. But if you're starting out a ferry to Britanny is a pretty good option.

 

[willem]

You do not mention if you want to camp or not. I think camping is one of the great things on a cycle touring holiday, but it does make a difference. If you don't camp, a road bike is less of a problem than when you do want to camp. If you stay in (youth)hotels and the like, you do not need more than some 8 kg, which should not be a problem if you take it in a saddle bag on a road bike. You may still want to adapt the bike a bit, like fit wider tyres, raise the handle bar etc.
If you decide to camp, you would really need to go ultralight if you want to take your road bike, and even then an older steel bike with a more relaxed geometry and traditional 36 spoke wheels may be better than a modern carbon monster with 20-24 spoke wheels. If you have a decent mtb, this may be a better route: fit road tyres like 50 mm Schwalbe Big Apples, again, raise the handlebar, and fit a rack like the Old Man Mountain Red Rock.
Using existing bikes you are well advised not to take too much luggage. If you avoid taking unnnecessary stuff, and only buy lightweight gear, you can keep your luggage weight down to 12-15 kg (aim for the lower end of this range if you take a road bike). For lightweight luggage you only need rear panniers. Spend the money you save by not buying front panniers and a front rack on higher quality compact and lightweight gear. The extra weight for a camping tour can be as little as about 3 kg: 1 kg for an ultralight tent like the Terra Nova Laser Competition, 1 kg for a Thermarest Neoair mattress and a PHD Minimus sleeping bag, and 1 kg for stove, pots etc. Some of this may not be too comfortable, but even only 1-1.5 kg more gives you a much larger tent and a warmer mattress.
A touring specific bike will ride better, and if you want to go into more remote areas and take more luggage, you will actually need one that can take more luggage, will be more rugged, and can take much wider tyres. If possible, however, I would suggest that you first see if one of your current bikes can be pressed into service. If you don't have camping gear, first buy some quality lightweight camping gear.
As for destinations, we prefer train and boat travel. From the UK, ferries into France are a nice way to get to the starting point of your ride. Another excellent possibilitiy is to take a ferry to Holland (Hook of Holland is easiest if you can get to Harwich easily) and a German Intercity Nightline train. These go in many directions, including Copenhagen, Prague, Berlin, southern Germany (with possibilities to get off for Luxemburg and Strassbourg), Basle, Zuerich and beyond. These trains have special bike carriages and if booked early they are dirt cheap.
If you commute most days you will have a quite decent basic cycling fitness. Make a number of longer trips as well, including one or two shakedown weekend trips with all your gear. The rest of your fitness will come with your actual trip. However, if you are above 45 or so, you may need to build up your cycling fitness more systematically if you want to avoid injuries. For the same reason, do not overdo it during the first week, and give yourself more days off from cycling in the beginning.
So if you want more specific advice, I think you need to tell us if you want to camp, what bike and possibly camping gear you already have, and what kind of budget you have for this. If the budget is tight, camping is all the more attractive in the long run, but equally the initial investment may be harder to cough up. If so, try to save on the travel part of your expenses, and watch the cost of camp sites and food. Holland and France are relatively cheap to get to and to stay, but Denmark for example is expensive. However, travel cost will also depend on where you are in the UK.
Willem

 

[psmiffy]

As a first time tourer you have a lot of questions to ask yourself – as I understand it the plan so far is to go on a tour sometime in mid – late 2011 in Western Europe – probably a good idea to sort out the basic plan now – whilst cycle touring is not as expensive as a lot of holidays it is not without cost so deciding on the budget at an early stage will help in defining the eventual outcome.

So what are you going to do about accommodation? This is an important question as it affects what bike you are going to use and to some extent how detailed you need to be about planning the trip – b&b or hostels you can get away with travelling light but probably need to book your accommodation ahead – if you are camping you can to some extent just go where your wheel takes you but need a bike that can carry a reasonable load – in particular the wheels – So is the bike you are using at present up for what you want to do? If not what can you afford?

An idea of the exact “where” would be a good idea bearing in mind that it will be a two week tour - as the more ambitious it is the more finance and planning will be required – Northern France or Spain is easy – train and a boat and you are there – beyond that for Southern France the bike bus is an ideal option – not cheap but easy and efficient. Beyond that flying becomes the only practical option (it can be done by train but the options are limited and it is a time hungry way to travel if starting from the UK) – I have flown many times – I pick a circular route “somewhere” that is doable in the time I have – pack the bike in a soft case – take the first available flight out that gets me to the start of my tour early on the first morning of my holiday – I leave the case in the left luggage at the airport (not inexpensive so something I budget for) and off – last day of the holiday I count as a travelling day so that I can be at the airport in plenty of time.

Fitness wise if you are cycling every day to work I would not worry too much assuming that you are not going to try to do a zillion miles every day or all the mountain passes between here and the med – back to a little bit of planning – is the plan doable – for a first tour you want to enjoy yourself so 50miles/80ks a day as the budget – it will actually be 10% to 15% more than that by the time you finish. But you need to pick a number – I find pushing the proposed route(s) through something like MS Autoroute a quick way of working out the “is it doable”.

I have predominantly toured on my on my own for the last 20years and never had any problems - the only drawback I have found is that I have very few photographs of me anywhere.

When preparing your route have a Plan B in mind particularly if you decide to go the do a lot of miles option – escape options in the form of trains or buses to get back to your primary transit point if it goes wrong – take at least a minimum of travel insurance – the bike and your kit are expendable but you are not.

Answering the questions prior to “the tour” is a fun thing to do and makes the winter a little brighter – whatever you do make sure it is what you want to do!

 

[Ticktockmy]

Welcome to the world of Cycle touring, now that you have your feet and thoughts on the first rung of the ladder, you can start on what I find in some ways is the most enjoyable part of cycle touring:

The planning stage, on this and on other forums you will find so much advice, at times it is overwhelming the amount of detailed advice you can glean from the posters on here.

What I would advice at this the planning stage, is forget the bike and equipment side of things. Draw up a short list of places you would like to go to, go to your local library and get out the books about rides that others have done, whilst the total journey mileage they have done might be more than you yourself want to do, you can choose to do maybe shorter version, or at least get ideas.

Look at http://www.crazyguyonabike.com as someone else has pointed out, check out the CTC website as loads of routes and information shown on there, have wild and crazy ideas, see if they are feasible for you, include within this your transport plan for each route you plan, and don’t forget to also include the “What If factor for things that can go wrong”. Once you have a plan and a standby plan just in case you find, problems with Visa stuff, getting the bike to your proposed start point, etc .

Once you know where you intend to start and finish, you can then, start looking at what Bike to use, if just using B&B, Hostel or Hotel accommodation , then you really don’t need to use a MTB, a road bike, touring bike or a hybrid unless of course you intend to use some off road tracks, etc. would be ok as long as you can hang some Panniers on it, don’t even think about using a rucsac, as I have seen some people use, makes for some very tiring riding.

Once you have you bike sorted then depending with your plans you can buy any equipment, and for sure this can be the biggest nightmare of all, as so much lightweight kit on the market, but again you must balance with what you want with what you can afford, plenty of bargains to be had as stockist try to offload last year’s models both with Bikes and equipment.

As to getting fit, well if you just want to do 50-60 miles a day sometimes less for sightseeing, then unless you are completely unfit, then start a few rides, with your panniers fitted but not all your equipment loaded, and cycle 15 -20 miles, after a week or so load some more equipment and do the same ride, have a route with a few hills thrown in, after a month or so you should have no problems, also it should by then show up any mechanical problems with the bike and fixtures and fittings, screws working loose, also it good to practice repairing punctures, adjusting cables etc.

Finally I would have a couple of rides fully loaded out to a Campsite, maybe 50 miles from home if you intend to camp, or to a B&B if you intend to B&B on your trip, just to shake down yourself, bike and equipment.

There you go my few thoughts

 

[hubbike]

Peter10,

People called Peter are always cool.

There is some terrific advice above, as usual for this forum...

Here's my tuppence worth:

1. Don't spend money straight away. Firstly, use what you have already, or borrow bits a pieces from friends. It might sound silly, but I went on a short tour with a small rucksack bungeed to a rack I found in a skip. I then knew that I enjoyed this way of travel and wanted to spend a bit more on better kit.

2. Do some weekend trips in UK. Scotland, Wales, west country, or somewhere nice where you live. Maybe ride to a friend who lives 50 miles away stay saturday night, maybe offer to cook them a bbq in return (camp in thier garden?), and cycle back by a different route on sunday stopping off somewhere for a pub lunch.

3. Have fun. If its tipping it down with rain, go to a museum, go to an indoor swimming pool, or just have a lazy day reading books and newspapers in a cafe. Leave enough flexibility in your plans that you are don't feel you are "forced" to cycle up hills in gales...

4. Take detours. for me the best experiences have been when I headed off the beaten track a little. down a dead end valley, into a national park, onto a gravel track, into a tucked away village.

5. Talk to people. aproach people in a friendly, warm and respectful way and you will be amazed the kindness you will be shown in return. Where possible always say "Yes!" Invitations to stay with locals give you a real "behind the scenes" glimse into another culture and way of life. Have the courtesy to learn at least a little of the language of wherever you visit.

6. Just go.

if you fancy check out my links page...

 

[Peter10]

Sorry I haven't got back to anyone on this thread, I've been a bit under the weather the last few days so by the time cycle home from work I'm pretty much asleep for the rest of the day.

Crankarm - Thanks for the information. And thanks for posting the link. I quite enjoy reading other peoples journals so I will have a read before bed. I may have to set my sights lower for next year at least. I definitely want to get out of the UK so may go for what Snorri recommends and try The Netherlands and Denmark (via Germany).

Hubbike - Thanks for the tips and I agree, Peters are cool . I should be able to borrow almost every thing in regards to camping, except a tent as friends/family all have massive tents for 4-10 people. I think things like stoves, sleeping bags etc would be covered fairly easily.

Everyone else, thank you for your input, very much appreciated.

So here's the plan (as it stands, advice very welcome indeed!):

I have just been given my 2011 shifts and touch wood, with my holiday I can get about 16-20 days off fairly easily with minimal use of holiday. This really pushes that 2 weeks out to give me at least 2 days travelling time and up to 18 days of play time. I have worked out even if I did only 35 miles a day I could cover the distance in 14 days or so. Plenty of time to get off the bike and have a look around, take pictures etc.

I was thinking of taking the ferry over to the Hook of Holland, cycling up to Amsterdam (approx 50 miles). Then get a hotel/motel so I can keep the bike safe for a day or two and see the sights and drink the beers of Amsterdam. Then from Amsterdam I aim to get to Esbjerg (approx 450 miles) to catch the ferry back to Harwich which is about 18 hours. From what I have read, they only do 4 ferry's a week though.

From Amsterdam to Esbjerb I would like to camp in a tent as much as I can to get a real feel for touring (and to save cash after the beers in Amsterdam). From memory Denmark & Holland both have a very similar climate to the UK in general, fairly cold all year round, May-August. We a bit warmer think we get a hotter summer but the same sort of rainfall, lexcept Denmark has a much longer hours of daylight. Any recommendations on months to go/avoid would be good. I would like to be in Amsterdam out of the peak season, but that is probably unavoidable. I would have to take a ferry over the Elbe. However, I can't seem to find the cost (my German is below Poor ). Any ideas?

I have been reliably informed Holland and Denmark are some of the most cycle friendly countries in Europe. Are they camp-site friendly also? I.E plenty of places to safely stick the tent up?

Anyone done a similar route to this? It seems like the most practical route in terms of a route to the ferry. I can either get a lift to Harwich from just outside West London or get a train. I would get an early ferry there and an overnight one back. On other thoughts, I may reverse it and go from Esbjerb to The Hook of Holland instead. At least If I am a day late, i can catch a ferry easily.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[snorri]

. I would have to take a ferry over the Elbe. However, I can't seem to find the cost (my German is below Poor ). Any ideas?

You will have to take three ferry trips in order to cross the rivers Weser and Elbe, also the Kiel (Noordsee) Canal. Avoid Wilhelmshaven, the ferry there only crosses once a day. The Kiel crossing is free, the Nordenham-Bremerhaven crossing of the Weser was 3.5 Euros this past summer. There are several options for crossing the Elbe, you can sail from Finkelwerder into Hamburg for 1.3 Euros, but if you don't want to go into Hamburg there is a crossing further downstream at Wischhafen over to Gluckstadt, costing just a few Euros.

Plenty of campsites along that route, remember wild camping is illegal in The Netherlands.
Better to cycle in the direction Amsterdam to Esbjerg, there is a much better chance of a following wind in that direction.

 

[Crankarm]

Cycling in Germany is good as well, although not quite on a par with Nederlands or Denmark. The Romantische Strasse is a route I would like to do at some point. Cycling in the Black Forest is great as well, fairly easy to reach by bike or train or a combination of. Lots of possibilites for you Pete. Try a few rides in the UK as well before hand.

 

[psmiffy]

Peter10 –sounds like a good plan – I have cycled up through Germany and Denmark a couple of times and done a circumnavigation of Denmark at another time – it is easy cycling and not difficult to find campsites – but I find it can be a little one dimensional (not that many places that I would choose to hang out for extended periods) – now you have 18 days or thereabouts to play, why not take in Copenhagen and possible a little sojourn up the west Swedish coast to Gothenburg .

From just north of Hamburg go east to Storstrom or North and across Fyn to Copenhagen

– nip across to Malmo and up to Gothenburg – Ferry back to Fredrickhven and Esbjerg - (fairly ambitious but would be doable)

or if that would be too much

across to Aahus and back to Esbjerg (easily doable in the time)

(Personally I would go north from Hoek to wherever - The wind is normally from the south - west - although this year there has been a lot of northerlies)

 

[MarkF]

Good luck! Most things seem to have been answered. For Spain, I've used bike bags and cardboard boxes from my local LBS.

When I go to Barcelona, I have a friend living there so I can use my bike bag and leave it as his place till my return flight. However, I've been given cardboard bike boxes from my LBS and flown to Malaga, Madrid and Santander and I've re-assembled my bike at the airports and left the box there.......wherever I've always managed to get another cardboard box in Spain.

BTW I have a bike bag in Barcelona (Badalona actually) and I'd like it back, so, if anybody is planning on riding out...............