Aerodynamics - ?

[slowmotion]

Rolls-Royces used to look quite elegant until the late Sixties. Now they look like some hideous bullying battle tank. Everytime I see one I'm reminded of that wonderful 1970's trash film, The Car.
[medium]

]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6-yVoJTCo8[/media]

 

[MichaelW2]

Car design students have special car design degrees. They seem to be degrees in supercar doodling .

 

[wafter]

OK, think about it this way....think of the first car you really enjoyed owning, what was it you really liked, style ? performance ?, even aerodynamics ? It wasn't always that way, it evolved from something else. So was it an abomination because it was different to what came before ? Of course not.
If aerodynamics is so important for so many , why aren't we all driving that Audi with a coefficient of blah blah, or a lotus so close to the ground you struggle to get in. Because
its not what some people ( most people it seems) want.

Don't get me wrong, the slab fronted cars we see now do seem an abomination, counterproductive, inefficient...but there's something about them that appeals to people, even if it's just being different for different sake. I don't know what it is but there you go, people buy them.
5 years, 10 year time, we will be looking at (and complaining about ) something different again...its just evolution. Some is good, some is..not so.

Otherwise, we'd all be driving about in Model Ts

I'm of the opinion. ( generally in life) live and let live, I don't (try to) judge, just see things for what they are...and live with it.

I understand your argument, I just don't agree that the path taken to reach the point we're at today can be legitimately described as "evolutionary".

Evolution implies steady, natural adaptive changes to improve performance within a given operating environment. In the case of cars I'd argue that many changes made in more recent times have been questionable from this perspective.

It's the same as bikes and many other engineered products - conceptually they achieved maturity many years ago at a point where they were, and remain fit for purpose. From that point on the marketing muppets have been increasingly challenged to come up with changes to keep people spending.. often change for change's sake which at worst results in an inferior product, to the detriment of the consumer.

Of course products do naturally evolve; however as usual greed and marketing have corrupted this process.

 

[wafter]

Rolls-Royces used to look quite elegant until the late Sixties. Now they look like some hideous bullying battle tank. Everytime I see one I'm reminded of that wonderful 1970's trash film, The Car.
[medium]

]View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6-yVoJTCo8[/media]

That looks bloody awful... although (intentionally or otherwise) a fitting allegory for the genuine ills this invention has visited upon society..

 

[presta]

x

I guess any aerodynamic design to the front would interfere with safety crush zones

I had a long chat with someone who word on designing crash zones on cars, and asked him if he could produce any evidence that they had saved lives. He just squirmed like a worm on a hook, it was like the Paxman-Howard interview: anything but address the question. I wouldn't have asked if I thought there was the slightest chance of him having any.

People want headroom and legroom so that's what they are given.

But you do get improvement, more legroom, headroom, safety..perhaps more. It just depends what your idea of 'improvement' is.

Why does a car need the external size and aerodynamics of an office block to give customers decent head and legroom?

They don't.
Being 6' 5" tall, I know a thing or two about fitting into cars, and a large part of the reason I gave up driving 20 years ago was the difficulty in finding anything with enough headroom: cars have got worse, not better.

there's something about them that appeals to people, even if it's just being different for different sake. I don't know what it is but there you go, people buy them.

As I said upthread: fashion.

 

[FishFright]

x

I had a long chat with someone who word on designing crash zones on cars, and asked him if he could produce any evidence that they had saved lives. He just squirmed like a worm on a hook, it was like the Paxman-Howard interview: anything but address the question. I wouldn't have asked if I thought there was the slightest chance of him having any.





They don't.
Being 6' 5" tall, I know a thing or two about fitting into cars, and a large part of the reason I gave up driving 20 years ago was the difficulty in finding anything with enough headroom: cars have got worse, not better.


As I said upthread: fashion.

Brother in law is 6'7" and has no problem finding cars to fit him.

 

[presta]

Brother in law is 6'7" and has no problem finding cars to fit him.

I think some people just slouch. I can't sit like that, it makes it even more difficult getting your feet on the pedals, and doesn't feel safe when jumping for the brake in an emergency. Reclining the seat is another option I've seen people doing, but that just makes my neck ache. Paradoxically, small cars often tend to be better than bigger ones, but at the time I gave up I was looking for an estate big enough to get a bike in.

A big problem with many cars (Vauxhalls were notorious for it), is pedals too high off the floor. That makes it impossible to get my feet on the pedals without lifting my heels off the floor, and doing that all day long makes you ache all over when the seat isn't supporting the backs of your thighs.

I rarely have any difficulty being a passenger, because I can just slouch without the reduced legroom preventing me from operating the pedals properly.

 

[FishFright]

I think some people just slouch. I can't sit like that, it makes it even more difficult getting your feet on the pedals, and doesn't feel safe when jumping for the brake in an emergency. Reclining the seat is another option I've seen people doing, but that just makes my neck ache. Paradoxically, small cars often tend to be better than bigger ones, but at the time I gave up I was looking for an estate big enough to get a bike in.

A big problem with many cars (Vauxhalls were notorious for it), is pedals too high off the floor. That makes it impossible to get my feet on the pedals without lifting my heels off the floor, and doing that all day long makes you ache all over when the seat isn't supporting the backs of your thighs.

I rarely have any difficulty being a passenger, because I can just slouch without the reduced legroom preventing me from operating the pedals properly.

He doesn't slouch and drives not just his own car but the ones in the car pool too.

Many things change in 20 years.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

The future (if you are rich):

View: https://youtu.be/GgriNm5S2WE?si=t24NX4_1V1TmWixN

 

[BrumJim]

x

I had a long chat with someone who word on designing crash zones on cars, and asked him if he could produce any evidence that they had saved lives. He just squirmed like a worm on a hook, it was like the Paxman-Howard interview: anything but address the question. I wouldn't have asked if I thought there was the slightest chance of him having any.

There's plenty of apocryphal evidence that people are walking away from crashes with the car in a state where previously the fire service would have been cutting out bodies. Indeed one of my colleagues survived a near head-on collision on a 50 mph single carriageway with nothing more than a broken toe. However much like the helmet debate, the stats are skewed by changes in driver behaviour, car speeds and numbers of vehicles on roads.

 

[gbb]

x

I had a long chat with someone who word on designing crash zones on cars, and asked him if he could produce any evidence that they had saved lives. He just squirmed like a worm on a hook, it was like the Paxman-Howard interview: anything but address the question. I wouldn't have asked if I thought there was the slightest chance of him having any.

Tbf, i'd struggle to believe there is no statistical evidence that's driven improvements in crash / crumple zones etc in cars.
It's more likely that person simply didn't know.

I know an awful lot about fruit packing machines, but ask me which is most efficient...no idea. (not relevent of course, but you can know a lot, but you can't know everything)

 

[gbb]

This thread is a classic example of what's important to some...simply isn't to others. Its not necessarily a good thing, but it's the reality we all live with everything around us.