Any electrician in the forum?

[Spoked Wheels]

I have an issue in the kitchen that I cannot diagnose. An appliance is causing a short circuit and I don't know which one it is. As you can imagine is difficult to let one out for a while. About 3 weeks ago the first short circuit took place and although my wife was in the kitchen at the time she couldn't tell what appliance was the culprit. She was watching the tv so the fridge and tv were the only items connected and drawing electricity. A few days later it happened again when we both were in the kitchen and it was clear to me that was the toaster although it was not being used. When I unplugged the toasted I thought the plug wasn't fully in the socket and maybe that had something to do with it. My wife went and got a new toaster and we were ok for over a week. Yesterday morning I found that it had happened again as all the appliances were off. I reset the switch and all the appliances were working fine, at least that is what we thought. This evening my wife couldn't turn on the dishwasher so I changed the fuse and when I went to plug it in there was a huge explosion the all appliances went off. I made the assumption that the previous incident had also been caused by the dishwasher that my wife left on before going to bed. I had to try one more test.... as scare as I was after the explosion I had just survived I replaced the fuse again but this time I used an extension lead which I connected in the next room and all was well.

So, I'm suspecting the ring in the kitchen at this point. The socket were the dishwasher plugs in is certainly one to suspect.

I'd like to have a better idea so I can get an electrician to check but I'd like to give him an idea of what the problem might be.

The wiring had been recently done before we bought the house some 14 years ago and never had an issue until tree weeks ago. None of the other rooms show a problem.

An electrician comments would be very welcome.

 

[snorri]

I wouldn't worry any further, point the electrician to the kitchen and let him/her get on with it.
You are paying the electrician to locate and clear the fault.

 

[vernon]

I wouldn't worry any further, point the electrician to the kitchen and let him/her get on with it.
You are paying the electrician to locate and clear the fault.

+1

 

[swansonj]

"reset the switch"... Is that a switch as in a residual current circuit breaker (RCD or RCCB), or a switch as in a miniature circuit breaker (MCB)? That would make a difference as to what sort of fault to be looking for. Do you know if the circuit is protected by an RCD, either for that specific circuit or for the whole house (or for all the power circuits in the house)? Which fuse was it you replaced both before and after the explosion - one in the plug of the dishwasher or one for the whole circuit? Do you know for certain that the fuse you were replacing had blown in both instances? Where did the "explosion" seem to emanate from? Any smell or visible light?

Sorry, that sounds like a cross-examination doesn't it, but it's all about narrowing down what may be happening.

 

[asterix]

I'd get a professional in. Unlike plastering, the consequences of ineptitude are not merely cosmetic.

(There is perhaps something to be said for the French standard where every socket (even ceiling lights are socketed) is wired back to the control unit in its own conduit and has its own RCD or maybe MCB. The downside is that the number of cables is awesome and it's hard to install enough plug sockets. Lots of extension leads. )

 

[swansonj]

I'd get a professional in. Unlike plastering, the consequences of ineptitude are not merely cosmetic.

Would you apply that principle to cycle maintenance too?

 

[swee'pea99]

I once had a friend who bought, did up & sold houses. He did everything himself, insisting 'it's all common sense when you get down to it', *apart from* electrics, on account of 'screw up the plumbing and you get watermarks on the ceiling; screw up the DIY and a shelf comes down; screw up the electrics and people die'.

 

[Tyke]

Get an Electrician in before your house burns down.

 

[subaqua]

as time served electrician it sounds like your dishwasher is obbloxed . and a large live to earth fault taking out the RCD or MCB - heating element by the sounds of it. worth getting a NICEIC registered electrician in to check things over http://www.esc.org.uk/public/find-an-electrician/

 

[Spoked Wheels]

"reset the switch"... Is that a switch as in a residual current circuit breaker (RCD or RCCB), or a switch as in a miniature circuit breaker (MCB)? That would make a difference as to what sort of fault to be looking for. Do you know if the circuit is protected by an RCD, either for that specific circuit or for the whole house (or for all the power circuits in the house)? Which fuse was it you replaced both before and after the explosion - one in the plug of the dishwasher or one for the whole circuit? Do you know for certain that the fuse you were replacing had blown in both instances? Where did the "explosion" seem to emanate from? Any smell or visible light?

Sorry, that sounds like a cross-examination doesn't it, but it's all about narrowing down what may be happening.

Hi and thanks for the reply.

The switch is one that control all the sockets of the ground floor.

The fused I replaced was a 13amp for the dishwasher plug.

I've just a continuity test on the two fuses. I thought both were gone as it happens one is still good so that leaves me back to where I started more or less.

It's quite possible that the bad fuse is the one I changed the first time round (when my wife couldn't get the dishwasher to work) - I should have tested the fuse to be 100% sure. Still, the second fuse was a brand new fuse so I guess that there is a high probability the fuse was good.

Maybe when I plugged the dishwasher the second time around the dishwasher trigger the safety switch so we lost power to the sockets. That's why I wanted to rule the dishwasher out and with a new fuse, I plugged the dishwasher to a another room socket, via an extension lead.

I don't really want to plug the dishwasher to the same socket again...... the explosion made me jump 10 feet up in the air by saying that I'm already suspecting that particular socket big time.

The explosion came from the socket and I did see some light coming out. No smell but it was something big so I don't want to plug anything there now.

I could turn the power off and examine the socket and see if water got in ( this particular socket sits on the wall behind the dishwasher) but that is unlikely.

The electrician cannot come till Saturday or Monday. That is not a problem as we can live without the dishwasher for a few days. I know the electrician so i wouldn't like to try somebody I know nothing about.

 

[swansonj]

I don't think a fault in the dishwasher would be likely to cause an explosion in the socket, so I tend to suspect the socket itself, possibly with a supplementary problem in the dishwasher. Most likely candidate is a loose connection so that the waggling caused by pluging and unpluging shifts the wires. That being so, I have to suggest, not just don't use the dishwasher, but don't use that whole circuit until it's been sorted out - it may have caused an explosion and taken out the fuse the last time, but the risk is that it might slowly overheat instead and cause a fire. If it was my house, I'd make the circuit safe, then take off the socket myself and have a look. That, however, is of dodgy legality under Part P and definitely not to be done unless you are happy with your own competence. So get an electrician in - but please consider not using that circuit (pull the fuse or trip the breaker at the consumer unit) until the electrician can have a look.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

I don't think a fault in the dishwasher would be likely to cause an explosion in the socket, so I tend to suspect the socket itself, possibly with a supplementary problem in the dishwasher. Most likely candidate is a loose connection so that the waggling caused by pluging and unpluging shifts the wires. That being so, I have to suggest, not just don't use the dishwasher, but don't use that whole circuit until it's been sorted out - it may have caused an explosion and taken out the fuse the last time, but the risk is that it might slowly overheat instead and cause a fire. If it was my house, I'd make the circuit safe, then take off the socket myself and have a look. That, however, is of dodgy legality under Part P and definitely not to be done unless you are happy with your own competence. So get an electrician in - but please consider not using that circuit (pull the fuse or trip the breaker at the consumer unit) until the electrician can have a look.

Thanks for your reply.

As it is, I don't see how I can isolate the kitchen circuit. As I said before, there is a one switch that turns off all the sockets for the ground floor. Turning that off would mean turning fridge, cooker, tv, and everything we have on the ground floor.

For the moment the dishwasher is out of use. I'm chasing the electrician again today.

Cheers

 

[Poacher]

(There is perhaps something to be said for the French standard where every socket (even ceiling lights are socketed) is wired back to the control unit in its own conduit and has its own RCD or maybe MCB. The downside is that the number of cables is awesome and it's hard to install enough plug sockets. Lots of extension leads. )

I don't think it's quite that bad. As far as I understand them, the French wiring regs allow up to 8 single sockets per circuit ( NO ring mains allowed!) using 2.5 sq mm cable. So you could have a single RCD for each room, providing you have no more than 8 sockets in it; probably 2 for the kitchen, with separate circuits again for heavy load appliances like washing machines. More of a rat's nest at the consumer unit than in the UK, but as you say, easier to isolate a problem.

 

[stephec]

Did the dishwasher work perfectly well on the old wiring circuit?

If it did then that gives your a big clue as to where the fault is.

 

[the_mikey]

Do you have RCD/MCB breakers or fuses?

There are too many variables to diagnose a fault, but I'm thinking there's potentially a problem with the neutral cable/earth.