ASL regulations (sorry, motorbikes again)

[captain nemo1701]

I'm entering into a bit of a debate with a motorcyclist on the Post website (thisisbristol) who thinks it'slegal to enter them on red if they are 'umarked' or not red/green asphalt.

Here's his latest response:
Yeah that's pretty much the only time I use it, so it's all legal. As for incorrectly marked, the ones that are marked as bus lanes, local by-laws allow motocyclists to use the bus lanes and if they incorporate the boxes, you are allowed to use them. Other places, old market roundabout is one is where there is a box but no markings making it a cyclist box not is it coloured red. Quite legal to go into them as well. them with cyclists though!”
The ASL in question is just black asphalt, neither red or green. As far as I understand the law, colour is irrelevant and just means the council simply didn't have any coloured asphalt to use at the time!. I reckon the laws still apply to this ASL (end of Old Market St, Bristol. Have a look on Google earth) and this guy is just wrong. Can anyone advise me on this?...Gaz?.Thanks

 

[BSRU]

The first white is the stop line all traffic must stop at that line( if the light is red/amber). The vehicles allowed into the box should be sign posted as there should be a feeder lane.
"If" the feeder lane into the ASL is a bus lane, never seen one of those, then if motorbikes are allowed into the bus lane then motorbikes can use the ASL.
The colour of the road surface is irrelevant but I would expect to see a bicycle painted in the box.
Maybe you can add a Streetmap link to the ASL they are referring to.

 

[G-Zero]

[QUOTE 1824788, member: 45"]If the motorbike has to cross a solid white line on a red light to enter it then it's illegal for him to be there. Colour of box is irrelevant.

Problem is, the rule also applies to cyclists.[/quote]

Apologies if I'm mis-reading the OP here, but ASLs are there to provide a safe area for pedal cyclists to use, so how can it be illegal for a cyclist to use them ?

I agree that the colour of the tarmac beyond the ASL and up to the SL, doesn't normally indicate a class of useage, it's just there to highlight the area dedicated to cyclists.

AFAIK, under normal circumstances, no motor vehicles are allowed to stop beyond the ASL and that includes the motorcyclist in the OP.

 

[fossyant]

Nobody takes notice of ASL's so I wouldn't waste my breath in an arguement ! Pointless bits of paint on the road.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

"If" the feeder lane into the ASL is a bus lane, never seen one of those, then if motorbikes are allowed into the bus lane then motorbikes can use the ASL.

I disagree with that.

The HC and relevant TSRGD regs are quite clear that the purpose of the ASL is "to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic." (my emphasis)

Whether this ASL is preceded by a bus lane or not is immaterial, the non-cyclist (whether that be a bus a taxi or a motorbike) must stop at the first stop line unless he has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red. The colour of the area is not mentioned in the regulations so is also irrelevant.

Sadly, nobody is ever prosecuted for wrongly using an ASL, at least not in Glasgow.

They're so widely ignored that I wonder if there's any point in having them.

GC

 

[Hawk]

Yes, you cannot cross the solid white line but either the ASZ has an approach with a dashed white line which you can enter and then get in to the ASZ from without crossing a solid line such as http://g.co/maps/pn353 ; occasionally I am also seeing an ASZ without an approach where the first stop line has a small corner of it dashed which a cyclist can proceed over

 

[BSRU]

I disagree with that.

The HC and relevant TSRGD regs are quite clear that the purpose of the ASL is "to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic." (my emphasis)

Whether this ASL is preceded by a bus lane or not is immaterial, the non-cyclist (whether that be a bus a taxi or a motorbike) must stop at the first stop line unless he has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red. The colour of the area is not mentioned in the regulations so is also irrelevant.

Sadly, nobody is ever prosecuted for wrongly using an ASL, at least not in Glasgow.

They're so widely ignored that I wonder if there's any point in having them.

GC

I have never seen one but I was trying to say if the feeder lane is a bus lane then motorbikes would be allowed or if the feeder lane has signs/markings indicating motorbikes are allowed. I think the biker in question is making things up to justify using the ASL.
I know they have experimented with motorbike feeder lanes into ASL's a while ago but I do not think they caught on.

 

[potsy]

Nobody takes notice of ASL's so I wouldn't waste my breath in an arguement ! Pointless bits of paint on the road.

I was waiting in one last night, only traffic on the road was me and a dd bus, he felt the need to roll into it alongside me about a foot from my elbow, I felt the need to tell him he shouldn't have done that
Don't normally bother tbh, but it came minutes after a wvm nearly took me out after emerging from a sidestreet into my path, despite a fairly bright front light and a bright yellow jacket

 

[BSRU]

[QUOTE 1824884, member: 45"]Solid white line at entrance.[/quote]
Legally no-one can enter a box without a filter lane(red/amber light), although I doubt a cyclist would be pulled up for it.
There was talk that the law was going to be changed so that no bicycle feeder lane would be required.
There are some just like that outside Swindon, the road is not wide enough for a filter lane into the box.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I have never seen one but I was trying to say if the feeder lane is a bus lane then motorbikes would be allowed or if the feeder lane has signs/markings indicating motorbikes are allowed.

No, they wouldn't. There is no such concession in the applicable regulations.
See also HC Rule 178 "Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line..."

I agree that the m/cyclist arguing with the OP is trying it on. What needs to happen is for him to get a ticket for it and see how his appeal goes.

GC

 

[BSRU]

No, they wouldn't. There is no such concession in the applicable regulations.
See also HC Rule 178 "Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line..."

I agree that the m/cyclist arguing with the OP is trying it on. What needs to happen is for him to get a ticket for it and see how his appeal goes.

GC

I never trust the HC, it can be misleading.
My posts should have had "In theory" at the beginning, motorbike ASL's probably only exist in theory.

 

[captain nemo1701]

Thanks everyone. I think I can formulate a response now. Here in Bristol, which has had motorbikes in bus lanes since the 90's, there does seem to be some either genuine or 'deliberate' confusion in the motorbiking community as to use of the cycle lanes and ASL. On my way home form work this past week (off bike temporarily for medical reasons), I've seen lots of motorbikes casaully entering the mandatory lanes to reach the ASL, which is obviously a no-no!.

The ASL in question is at the end of this road with the roundabout:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=359599&Y=173143&A=Y&Z=110

I think some of you are right. The motorcyclist is trying it on.

 

[fossyant]

This thread is boring - I'm off into the air zound one again !

 

[glasgowcyclist]

... there does seem to be some either genuine or 'deliberate' confusion in the motorbiking community as to use of the cycle lanes and ASL.

If he's so confident of his position, tell him to put it to the svengalie test.
Be sure to let us know if he's got the balls to do that.

GC

 

[captain nemo1701]

[QUOTE 1825002, member: 45"]I take it it's new provision, as I can't see anything here?[/quote]
That's an old photo of the new bus terminal being built. However, you're in the right area. Zoom into Streetview and swing about to look at the end of the road just outside the Stag & Hounds pub. That's the ASL the biker is on about - standard white line/black asphalt.
Incidentally, if you go south from the end of Old Market St, you'll come to the mandatory cycle lane that I frequently see motorcyclists using.