calling all plumbers - urgent help needed!

[e-rider]

I found a flood in my kitchen tonight. After some (a lot of) investigation I found that this thing called a 'kickspace' under my cooker (it's like a fan connected to the heating system) has a pipe that is dripping water.

Problem is that it's near impossible to get to (I can see it dripping though with the front removed). When the heating is on, the dripping stops - is this due to the heat and expansion of the leaky fittings?

There is a huge nut, is it likely that this just needs to be tightened? (If I can get to it) Or will it need replacing? It looks like a flexible silver hose type pipe.

Also the pressure in the heating system keeps dropping fast, even if topped up, which suggests a leak right?

 

[classic33]

I found a flood in my kitchen tonight. After some (a lot of) investigation I found that this thing called a 'kickspace' under my cooker (it's like a fan connected to the heating system) has a pipe that is dripping water.

Problem is that it's near impossible to get to (I can see it dripping though with the front removed). When the heating is on, the dripping stops - is this due to the heat and expansion of the leaky fittings?

There is a huge nut, is it likely that this just needs to be tightened? (If I can get to it) Or will it need replacing? It looks like a flexible silver hose type pipe.

Also the pressure in the heating system keeps dropping fast, even if topped up, which suggests a leak right?

Any picture of the area in question.

 

[deanE]

If it has flexible hoses to connect to the circuit then it probably will have shut off valves at one end of each of these. You turn these off with a flat screwdriver, half turn should do it. Will at least stop the leak until you can get a plumber there.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

I found a flood in my kitchen tonight. After some (a lot of) investigation I found that this thing called a 'kickspace' under my cooker (it's like a fan connected to the heating system) has a pipe that is dripping water.

Problem is that it's near impossible to get to (I can see it dripping though with the front removed). When the heating is on, the dripping stops - is this due to the heat and expansion of the leaky fittings?



There is a huge nut, is it likely that this just needs to be tightened? (If I can get to it) Or will it need replacing? It looks like a flexible silver hose type pipe.

Also the pressure in the heating system keeps dropping fast, even if topped up, which suggests a leak right?

The silver thingy, is a flexypipe, a rubber tube with s/steel branding to re-enforce it. They don't last forever, especially on heating (pressure and heat cycles).

Only try to tighten the compression fitting / coupling up with the heating and water switched off....just in case something goes wrong.

Just try to nip it up initially but don't go nuts. If that doesn't work, strip the fitting down and check out the condition of either, the brass olive (pitted or loose) or the fibrous washer.

Personally, I'd remove the flexyhose and either replace with anew one or go the whole Hogg and replace with solid. I don't like flexies, they can be a bit unreliable at times.

 

[e-rider]

thanks for the advice - my biggest problem at the moment is that I can't really get to it - I will try removing the oven tomorrow (which is like integrated into the unit) and then I should be able to dry it all out and look at fixing or replacing the hose

 

[Night Train]

I found a flood in my kitchen tonight. After some (a lot of) investigation I found that this thing called a 'kickspace' under my cooker (it's like a fan connected to the heating system) has a pipe that is dripping water.

Problem is that it's near impossible to get to (I can see it dripping though with the front removed). When the heating is on, the dripping stops - is this due to the heat and expansion of the leaky fittings?

There is a huge nut, is it likely that this just needs to be tightened? (If I can get to it) Or will it need replacing? It looks like a flexible silver hose type pipe.

Also the pressure in the heating system keeps dropping fast, even if topped up, which suggests a leak right?

Is it a kickspace heater, sort of like this?

If it is leaking try and get a photo of the area, and the leak, where it is leaking from, if you can.

The only way to get access to it is to pull the oven out and then access it from above. I assume that the cooker is an oven and hob built in.

If you were able to tighten the big nut it is leaking from then you might get it to stop leaking for a while. Otherwise, have a look along the plumbing that is connected to it. There should be flexible braided hoses connected to it and there may be isolation valves on the ends of these like these.

The slotted screw head is the valve. It turns 90deg. With the slot in line with the hose you get flow, with the slot across the hose it is shut off.
If shutting it off stops the leak then then good, you can try tightening the nut, don't force it though or it can get worse.
It may be better to get a professional in, after the holidays.

 

[e-rider]

Is it a kickspace heater, sort of like this?

If it is leaking try and get a photo of the area, and the leak, where it is leaking from, if you can.

The only way to get access to it is to pull the oven out and then access it from above. I assume that the cooker is an oven and hob built in.

If you were able to tighten the big nut it is leaking from then you might get it to stop leaking for a while. Otherwise, have a look along the plumbing that is connected to it. There should be flexible braided hoses connected to it and there may be isolation valves on the ends of these like these.

The slotted screw head is the valve. It turns 90deg. With the slot in line with the hose you get flow, with the slot across the hose it is shut off.
If shutting it off stops the leak then then good, you can try tightening the nut, don't force it though or it can get worse.
It may be better to get a professional in, after the holidays.

yes, it looks similar to that, and yes, I have discovered that the only way to get to it is from above, and removing the oven. And yes, the leaking hose looks just like that one you have pictured. Unfortunately, I lost my job 5 weeks ago and the thought of plumbers fees will probably keep me awake tonight. I'll try and get the oven out tomorrow and tighten the nut, or even replace the whole hose if possible.

 

[Night Train]

yes, it looks similar to that, and yes, I have discovered that the only way to get to it is from above, and removing the oven. And yes, the leaking hose looks just like that one you have pictured. Unfortunately, I lost my job 5 weeks ago and the thought of plumbers fees will probably keep me awake tonight. I'll try and get the oven out tomorrow and tighten the nut, or even replace the whole hose if possible.

OK, if you are unsure of what to do then post photos and we'll collectively tell you umpteen different ways of fixing it.

Seriously though, once the oven is out you should be able to see better which part is actually leaking and we can take it from there.

Is the oven gas or electric?

 

[e-rider]

OK, if you are unsure of what to do then post photos and we'll collectively tell you umpteen different ways of fixing it.

Seriously though, once the oven is out you should be able to see better which part is actually leaking and we can take it from there.

Is the oven gas or electric?

I could see it dripping from the large nut but it could have been running down the pipe.
The oven is electric and the hob is gas. I removed the oven a while back to replace the heating element so I know how to do that. There is some wooden trim around it but that should be easy enough to get out the way.
The screws that you mention both seem to be at 45 degrees no not fully on, but not off either! I can't get a screw driver in there at the moment but I have cut a plastic bottle which is catching the drips and running to a baking tray to collect the water which will do for tonight. I have isolated the electricity too!

 

[Night Train]

I could see it dripping from the large nut but it could have been running down the pipe.
The oven is electric and the hob is gas. I removed the oven a while back to replace the heating element so I know how to do that. There is some wooden trim around it but that should be easy enough to get out the way.
The screws that you mention both seem to be at 45 degrees no not fully on, but not off either! I can't get a screw driver in there at the moment but I have cut a plastic bottle which is catching the drips and running to a baking tray to collect the water which will do for tonight. I have isolated the electricity too!

Good, that will do until you can get to it.

The isolation valves will only isolate the heater from the CH plumbing. It won't allow you to change the flexible pipes if they are damaged. For that you will need to drain down the heating system, change the pipes and then refill and bleed the radiators.

If it is only leaking from the pipe connection then it may just need a small amount of tightening, or it may need to be undone and some PTFE tape applied to seal the threads, or there maybe a fiber washer or seal of some sort that needs replacing.
For that you can isolate both the feed and return pipes to the heater and then undo the connection. That is assuming that the leak is from the closed, heater, side of the valve!

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Ptfe doesn't seal threads on those fittings, still apply it tho...it 'lubes' the threads and makes it,easier to nip up.

Ptfe (on a roll type) only seal threads of bspt and bspt-t threads or similar thread to thread.

If the isolation valves are on the pipes and not on the flexies then the flexies can be changed without draining the system.

If you drain the system, then you'll need to redo the inhibiter (stops rusting and stagnation and algae) plus bleeding g it.

 

[Night Train]

Ptfe doesn't seal threads on those fittings, still apply it tho...it 'lubes' the threads and makes it,easier to nip up.

Ptfe (on a roll type) only seal threads of bspt and bspt-t threads or similar thread to thread.

If the isolation valves are on the pipes and not on the flexies then the flexies can be changed without draining the system.

If you drain the system, then you'll need to redo the inhibiter (stops rusting and stagnation and algae) plus bleeding g it.

Yes, but I am trying to cover all bases until we can see the actual leak.

The PTFE, if used, should be wrapped in the right direction so that it doesn't unravel when the nut is done up.

I have used PTFE on pipe olives, and flat washers, as a temporary measure until it could be repaired properly later, usually after a quick trip to the plumbing department of B&Q.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Yeah I've bodged, sorry I mean, temporary fixed olives with ptfe. but putting ptfe on the threads, will serve no sealing purpose on compression fittings or face sealing fittings at all.


A temp 'washer' can be fashioned for face seals to replace/repair fibrous /rubber washers.

 

[slowmotion]

Do not replace the flexible hoses with yet more. Braided hoses are designed for intermittent flows of hot water to taps and appliances. Maybe 65 degrees C for a few minutes a day, on average. Central heating systems often operate at 80 C for hours at a time. The washers in the flexible hoses perish, as does the rubber.
None of this should surprise you. By and large, plumbers get away with absolute murder, and have absolutely no care about the consequences of their crappy work. I have seen hundreds of isolation valves pointing to the wall where it is impossible to get a tool on them. The "professionals" retired long ago to their villas in Spain and are having a good laugh about it.

 

[e-rider]

so here we have the pictures
The top nut on the flexible braided hose was dripping quite fast last night - it now appears to have stopped dripping.
The white board above the unit, I can't seem to remove - no screws but it is solid - perhaps dowels holding it which would require the side panels removing?
Also, the other end of the silver braided hoses vanish around the corner so I'd have to remove most of the fitted unit to get to that - that sounds too big a job for me!
I'm hoping I can just tighten this silver nut and solve the problem? But now it's not dripping I wont know for sure if it's fixed.