Can anyone quote the corporate manslaughter act?

[Twenty Inch]

Hi

Need to complain to Metrobus about a bus driver. I was wondering whether there is a passage of the Corporate Manslaughter Act that I could quote, or any case law. I want to be able to say something like "Under the Corporate Manslaughter Act of 20??, if someone is injured or killed by one of your drivers, and it can be shown that you have failed to provide them with sufficient training or guidance, the directors and managers of the company will be liable for???"

Anyone? Patrick?

Cheers

 

[Haitch]

Take a look here.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Thanks, that's helpful. I'm also after any case law although it's probably too early or instances where this has been applied, quoted, referred to.

Cheers.

 

[Riding in Circles]

In the case of a bus driver it will be difficult to prove corporate responsibility beyond public liability for insurance purposes, the most likely outcome would be a charge of causing death by dangerous driving if/when they finally implement it or negligent homicide. My second degree is in contract law, although it was some years ago, we did extensive study on corporate liability which is what the corporate manslaughter bill is based on.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Well, the point I would like to make is that if there's a body of evidence about poor driving standards by their drivers, then there's a responsibility on them to correct it.

In any event, I have to complain to TfL. Anyone with any experience of this?

 

[spindrift]

In any event, I have to complain to TfL. Anyone with any experience of this?

yeah, ignored then bog standard reply.

 

[domtyler]

What did he do anyway?

 

[Twenty Inch]

Email to TFL, for what it's worth:

"Dear TfL

I would like to complain about the driver of bus registration PN06 UYO, route number 138, on Westmoreland Road in Bromley South at about 17.50 hours. The driver was an older white male, slim build, clean-shaven and short-haired, wearing glasses. The route is operated by Metrobus.

I was cycling towards Bromley South away from Hayes Lane, when the bus overtook me at about arm’s length, cutting in sharply to avoid the traffic island ahead. He stopped at the Cumberland Road busstop, where I caught up with him. I asked him why he passed so closely. His reply was aggressive and rude. When we set off again, he passed me again, even closer. This was a deliberate attempt to intimidate.

The Highway Code Rule 163 states drivers should only overtake when it is safe to do so. It also states that cyclists should be given as much room as a car when overtaking. The reason for this is simple- if I were to fall from my bike while the bus was overtaking that close, the bus would kill me. This is made clear in Highway Code rule 213: “Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.”

The driver’s subsequent aggression and second close pass convinced me that this driver is dangerous to other road users.

I will shortly be buying a helmet camera which I will use to record incidents of this sort. I will have no hesitation in reporting further incidents to the police as dangerous driving.

In the meantime, please let me know what training and guidance you give to bus drivers regarding vulnerable road users. Please also let me know what action you intend to take in this instance.

Regards"


Copied to Jenny Jones too.

Actually I'm going to send it to Metrobus head office too.

 

[domtyler]

Way too aggressive, likely to end in the bin before the first sentence has been read. Suggest you sleep on it and try again tomorrow.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Way too aggressive, likely to end in the bin before the first sentence has been read. Suggest you sleep on it and try again tomorrow.

What would you suggest?

 

[domtyler]

What would you suggest?

A less aggressive stance.

 

[Twenty Inch]

A less aggressive stance.

No, really, rewrite a couple of paragraphs in the DomTyler style, perhaps I can learn something.

 

[domtyler]

No, really, rewrite a couple of paragraphs in the DomTyler style, perhaps I can learn something.

I'm not going to do your work for you 20", but the impression you need to give to the person who opens your letter/email and reads it needs to be one of an injured party politely putting their case across rather than a ranting, aggressive cyclist.

Express your shock and anxiety at the shoddy treatment you were shown by one of their staff and even though you have never written a letter of complaint before you feel you have to say something this time before someone really does get hurt. Even though you don't want anyone to get into trouble, suggest that someone has a quiet word with the driver to point out the vulnerability of cyclists on the roads and the needs of other road users to avoid using the size and power of their vehicles to bully them.

I would cut out most or all of the HC/legal quotes from a first letter.

 

[Sapper]

I would like to complain about the driver of bus registration PN06 UYO, route number 138, on Westmoreland Road in Bromley South at about 17.50 hours. The driver was an older white male, slim build, clean-shaven and short-haired, wearing glasses. The route is operated by Metrobus.

I was cycling towards Bromley South away from Hayes Lane, when the bus overtook me; unnecessary close, the force of the slip stream suggests he was about an about arm’s length. As he had obviously miss-read the road ahead, he had to cut in sharply to avoid the traffic island ahead. He stopped at the Cumberland Road bus stop, where I was able catch up with him. I asked him politely why he had passed so closely. His reply was unnecessary aggressive and rude. When we set off again, he passed me again, even closer. This was a deliberate attempt to intimidate.

The driver’s subsequent aggression and second close pass convinced me that this driver is dangerous to other road users.

I was saddened and shocked by the attitude of one of your employees towards another road user. After the two separate incidences, my pulse rate was rather high, as a result of two experiences that could have caused significant harm to myself. This time your driver and I were lucky that no one was injured; other than perhaps pride. However I feel that his driving attitude was inappropriate, and that I feel that I have to bring this to the attention of the company before someone really gets hurt.
Even though I would prefer not to get anyone to get into trouble, I would like to suggest that someone has a quiet word with the driver to point out the vulnerability of cyclists on the roads and the needs of other road users to avoid using the size and power of their vehicles to bully them. Letting a cyclist through a bottleneck will not add a significant delay to the trip, but will allow other road users to use the road safely and without intimidation.

In the meantime, please let me know what training and guidance you give to bus drivers regarding vulnerable road users. Please also let me know what action you intend to take in this instance.

Regards


Is this softer?


Adrian

 

[Twenty Inch]

It's softer Adrian, but it's not what I want to say.

I opened with my intent - to complain. I deliberately left out the subjective descriptors of "about" as I wanted it to sound definite.

I don't "feel" that his driving was "inappropriate", I know it was dangerous. Similarly I don't want to "suggest a quiet word", I want his management to tell him not to do it again.

I've deliberately quoted the HC, to show that there is an objective guide to behaviour and to remind them of its existence. I also wanted to point out why - that dangerous driving can kill people.

Well done for taking up the challenge that Dom Tyler so pathetically ducked - I had thought that he was becoming a more constructive member of the forum, but evidently not.