Car -vs- Cycle Lane incident 😲

[brommieinkorea]

My point to this whole thing is, if the police and courts made an example out of most of these people, the others wouldn't do it because there could be repercussions. Losing a license, drive anyway. Speeding ticket, £200 won't wreck your year. But hauling them off to the pokey squanders their precious time, even if they don't get a conviction. These people talk to each other, and if one of them drives on the bike path and then spends the next two days processing in and out of a jail and paying a £5 ticket the others will know that's a bad idea. They also go on bike advocacy forums and defend the heinous actions of other motorists....

 

[BrumJim]

Vulnerable, particularly in the world of protection (i.e. children and vulnerable adults) is a code for mentally impaired, either throughout their life (mentally sub-normal) or through Alzeimer's, etc. He may have been described as vulnerable due to his medical history, not a snap judgement at the site of the crime. Or might have been blatantly obvious, i.e. no idea of his name, age, home address, etc.

So this gentleman should not have had a driving license, due to his mental state. He is vulnerable as he is not in a state where he can make his own decisions, and not just a beligerent old duffer with poor eyesight or a grudge against cyclists.

 

[Alex321]

Premeditated murder using a car is very common in the UK and USA.

I do not believe that for one moment. There were only 87 cyclist deaths in the UK in 2023 (the last year with figures currently available), so even if most of those were deliberate murder, it still wouldn't be "common". And I would be surprised if ANY of them were premeditated murder.

The perpetrator isn't charged because the Police know the courts will throw it out.
Driver sees cyclist. Driver thinks "that guy doesn't belong on the road!". Driver hits cyclist from behind or sideswipes him. Driver says "I didn't see him" to the hapless police officer who has to file a report. This is premeditated murder,

No it isn't. Premeditated means you planned it in advance, not decided on the spur of the moment to do it.

Though even doing it on the spur of the moment isn't remotely common.

and the motorist knows he will get away with it, he won't even have to defend himself from dangerous driving or vehicular homicide charges.

Many actually will be charged - a 2018 report covering 10 police forces over 10 years showed that there had been 209 cyclist deaths, with 89 charges brought for "causing death by ..." and 66 convictions. Considering it will need evidence of bad driving, more than a quarter being convicted of such charges is a significant proportion.

The felon drives away from the scene, other motorists see this has happened and they now know they too can kill someone at will......as long as they use a car.

I do not believe this happens to any significant extent. Apart from anything else, most of us simply don't want to kill other people, except in Midsomer of course.

 

[Alex321]

My point to this whole thing is, if the police and courts made an example out of most of these people, the others wouldn't do it because there could be repercussions. Losing a license, drive anyway.

Most won't. We get to hear about the ones who do, because that is newsworthy, not because it is common.

Speeding ticket, £200 won't wreck your year. But hauling them off to the pokey squanders their precious time, even if they don't get a conviction. These people talk to each other

Really? Just who do you think "these people" are that they "talk to each other"?

, and if one of them drives on the bike path and then spends the next two days processing in and out of a jail and paying a £5 ticket the others will know that's a bad idea. They also go on bike advocacy forums and defend the heinous actions of other motorists....

I'm sure there are some who do that, but very few that I see. I suspect most wouldn't even know there are such things as bike advocacy forums.

 

[Vantage]

We're not safe anywhere these days.
There's been increasing reports of drivers parking their shoot box's in people's front rooms here in Bolton recently. I'm seeing about 1 cyclist/driver 'collision' every day in this town alone via FB.
It's nuts out there.

 

[blackrat]

I do not believe that for one moment. There were only 87 cyclist deaths in the UK in 2023 (the last year with figures currently available), so even if most of those were deliberate murder, it still wouldn't be "common". And I would be surprised if ANY of them were premeditated murder.



No it isn't. Premeditated means you planned it in advance, not decided on the spur of the moment to do it.

Though even doing it on the spur of the moment isn't remotely common.



Many actually will be charged - a 2018 report covering 10 police forces over 10 years showed that there had been 209 cyclist deaths, with 89 charges brought for "causing death by ..." and 66 convictions. Considering it will need evidence of bad driving, more than a quarter being convicted of such charges is a significant proportion.



I do not believe this happens to any significant extent. Apart from anything else, most of us simply don't want to kill other people, except in Midsomer of course.

All very true, I don't believe many people in the US plan a murder using their car. This is another example of saying: "everyone does it" nonsense.

 

[brommieinkorea]

All very true, I don't believe many people in the US plan a murder using their car. This is another example of saying: "everyone does it" nonsense.

I never said they spent lots of time planning, doesn't matter. They're NOT accidents, and that is the point where enforcement of the law would work. In the USA a truck driver was charged with murder because the trailer lights went out and someone in a car hit the truck. The story gets told and rehashed enough that professional drivers are very cautious about safety checks etc... the guy was not convicted.

 

[blackrat]

I never said they spent lots of time planning, doesn't matter. They're NOT accidents, and that is the point where enforcement of the law would work. In the USA a truck driver was charged with murder because the trailer lights went out and someone in a car hit the truck. The story gets told and rehashed enough that professional drivers are very cautious about safety checks etc... the guy was not convicted.

Not to get all nit-picky, but as far as I am aware, for a murder charge to stick, the act has to be premeditated (ie, planned)

 

[Profpointy]

.

No it isn't. Premeditated means you planned it in advance, not decided on the spur of the moment to do it.

Though even doing it on the spur of the moment isn't remotely common.

I don't think premeditation (in the sense of prior planning) is required for a murder charge to stick. It does require "intent" to kill OR INJURE, but not pre-planning. If you stab someone in the street after a petty quarrel that is quite likely to amount to murder.

Seemingly "attempted murder" requires and intent to actually kill, rather than being an assault with a fair chance of killing, so deliberately running people over rarely counts as attempted murder if they survive but could well be murder if they die.

Open to being corrected if someone has genuine legal knowledge

 

[mjr]

I don't recall any such adverts in this country (UK). They would probably be illegal here.

How often do you watch car adverts? I don't much and I've seen them, including people driving full tilt at vulnerable road users who are then saved by the almighty protection systems of the cars, so drivers can totally stop even pretending to give a toss.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Mod Note: thread temporary locked pending clean up from derailment.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Mod Note:
Conspiracy theory, personal attacks etc. have been deleted.
Thread reopened.

 

[Vantage]

Murder would be almost impossible to prove if done via a motor vehicle however, manslaughter would be an ideal charge for someone who kills through driving.
Why this isn't done more often is beyond me.

 

[Alex321]

Murder would be almost impossible to prove if done via a motor vehicle however, manslaughter would be an ideal charge for someone who kills through driving.
Why this isn't done more often is beyond me.

That always used to puzzle me as well.

But for quite a few years now there has been the offence of causing death by dangerous driving, and CPS guidelines say that it should normally be the specific offence that is charged where there is one, rather than the more generic offence.

And since 2022, Causing death by dangerous driving also carries a maximum sentence of life (rarely imposed, but it is also rarely imposed for manslaughter).