Carbon vs ti

[deanbmx]

I know this is probably opening a huge can of worms but I need some help.

I have always loved the look of Van Nicholas bikes but couldnt afford a ti frame so I have been doing lots of research on chinese carbon frame suppliers and was all set to order, until last night I have found a custom ti supplier in china that will build as you want (head tube, ,dropouts, , internal cables etc...) for similar money to what I was going to pay for the carbon.

Now the main reason for changing was I find the rear end on my cube really stiff & it makes me hurt after a fairly short distance.

So I want something that will be fairly supple on the crap roads around here, I have ridden carbon in the past around here and it was very smooth and comfy (boardman team carbon).

Which do you think I would gain what I am looking for from?

Thanks

 

[cyberknight]

Have you got a carbon seatpost ?
I know they spesh do a cobl gobl-r but thats currently only 27.2 mm post so does tht fit your frame without a shim ?
This would help with your set up without resorting to buying a new bike.
Also what grade titanium does the supplier use as this can affect the frames properties as well as frame geometry, finally how hard would it be to arrange a return the bike if there turned out to be a problem? The supplier is in all likelihood legit but there have been some horror stories regarding chinese carbon made of low grade stuff .

 

[deanbmx]

I havent got a carbon post, it was next on the cards really. The supplier for the carbon is Dengfu bikes which are one of the highly recommended suppliers over on velobuild.

The ti is TI-3 AL 2.5 v which I believe is the same as that of VN

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

I havent got a carbon post, it was next on the cards really. The supplier for the carbon is Dengfu bikes which are one of the highly recommended suppliers over on velobuild.

Whilst some have reported good experiences RE Dengfu and Velobuild, i had nothing but trouble with them. Long story short the frame was massively delayed and when asked for a refund it took nearly a month with which they tried to charge me paypal tax on even though paypal is strict about it's refund policies.
Once you order from Velobuild you are given the impression that you are buying and dealing with them direct whereas you are actually just buying from Dengfu through the Velobuild site. It is essentially going through a 3rd party but a rather useless one as they have no power RE refunds, delays or dealing with complaints.

As i say other people have had good experiences but i had so many confusing emails and delays that i asked for a refund, which i eventually got after mega hassle. The whole debacle took several months. My conclusion is simple: If you don't mind a gamble then you might be lucky and get a decent product that will not need any warranty or sending back. If you do need to send anyhing back or are sent the wrong item (apparently common) then you have a serious problem on your hands. It all comes down to trust and i'd sooner trust David Cameron.

IMO.

Edit: Also meant to add that Velobuild sensor comments and questions on it's forum. Post anything like "has anyone had any problems with Dengfu" and the comment is removed by mods. It's very controlled.

​

 

[cyberknight]

I havent got a carbon post, it was next on the cards really. The supplier for the carbon is Dengfu bikes which are one of the highly recommended suppliers over on velobuild.

The ti is TI-3 AL 2.5 v which I believe is the same as that of VN

fair enough , i have heard they are ok .
I would really look into a carbon post and bike fit 1st though .

 

[Rob3rt]

I have seen so many cracks and warranty cases on ti bikes (baring in mind they are not that common) that I would want a lifetime warranty and a UK based company to deal with if buying ti.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

I have seen so many cracks and warranty cases on ti bikes (baring in mind they are not that common) that I would want a lifetime warranty and a UK based company to deal with if buying ti.

Agreed. The first post mentioned Van Nicholas. They lifetime warranty? I don't actually mind them. Can be reasonably low weight with right kit.

 

[deanbmx]

Velobuild no longer act as a 3rd party so it would be directly with dengfu. I have been impressed with their customer service so far. Although they font have my money yet. Cracks on ti was a slight concern, that coupled with not knowing what the ride quality would be like. Whereas I know roughly what to expect with carbon.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Velobuild no longer act as a 3rd party so it would be directly with dengfu. I have been impressed with their customer service so far. Although they font have my money yet. Cracks on ti was a slight concern, that coupled with not knowing what the ride quality would be like. Whereas I know roughly what to expect with carbon.

Cool, i think the simple decision comes down to - is the money saved worth the gamble? Only you can answer that Dean. Good luck either way.

 

[Rob3rt]

Agreed. The first post mentioned Van Nicholas. They lifetime warranty? I don't actually mind them. Can be reasonably low weight with right kit.

VN offer lifetime warranty on their own frames I belive but from what I have seen, on the frames they make for others (Planet X etc), typically the warranty is dictated by the re-seller not VN.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

VN offer lifetime warranty on their own frames I belive but from what I have seen, on the frames they make for others (Planet X etc), typically the warranty is dictated by the re-seller not VN.

Yeh i think if you are going Ti then spend the small extra and go to the source. In this case VN. Lifetime warranty is a big selling point imo.

 

[deanbmx]

The problem is its not a small extra. Its pretty much twice the price. Planet x ti is on sale for £800 at the moment from £1k whereas custom ti from the otherside of the world is £450 shipped so its a huge amount more. Although obviously the vn pays for itself if the chinese one breaks

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

The problem is its not a small extra. Its pretty much twice the price. Planet x ti is on sale for £800 at the moment from £1k whereas custom ti from the otherside of the world is £450 shipped so its a huge amount more. Although obviously the vn pays for itself if the chinese one breaks

Absolutely. You could also argue that it's not likely to break (if it breaks) whilst sitting in the garage but when you are riding it - down a descent at 45mph.
As i say, if the chinese Ti lasts a long time then you've made the right choice. If it breaks and you lose £450 then that's an expensive piece of titanium scrap you own.

 

[deanbmx]

Indeed. I suppose its swings and roundabouts.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Titanium is a very difficult material to work with and requires extreme levels of purity and cleanness, any oil, grease or coatings will be taken into the weld and have weakness. Titanium also absorbs elements like oxygen and nitrogen at the kinds of temperatures used for welding which can make it weak this can cause failures around area's which have been welded, its not uncommon to see Titanium Alloys develop hairline cracks over time around area of localized heat.
When welding Titanium you are requited to shield the back of the weld with argon gas failure to do so can result in a weld being very brittle. Any titanium which is discolored is also an indication of impurity in the material or welding commonly associated with using welding rods not made of titanium or including another material as well.

Titanium is not bomb proof, it is not uncommon to fail less than any other material and it can and does crack. Like Carbon it requires a specialist knowledge and production technique to produce quality products.
Like Carbon bikes vary in quality, so do Titanium bikes... There are different grades and different quality's of material, they are not all equal.

As I could not be certain of the cleanness of the build environment in Asia I would not buy a titanium frame from such a source.

HTH