Close overtaking - what to do?

[thomas]

On the way back from work today, I was coming up to a roundabout and could sense a bus on my tail. It then goes to overtake without giving enough room. It was in touching distance.

What do you do in situations like this? Yell, hit, airzound?

My chosen reaction was the middle option there. As the bus went past I made sure the driver knew of my presence before potentially turning left in on my at the roundabout. I must of had a fair few whacks as it went past.

Unsuprisingly I got a mouthful of abuse for this and quite fankly I'm not suprised.

Was my reaction too animalistic? Was it inappropriate? Was it justified?

This happened directly outside the local police station and after the roundabout (i got a head when they slowed on the roundabout) I stopped and pointed at the police station offering to go there now. The driver and his mate just yelled out the door and carried on.

All I can say is that I wish I'd ordered my helmet camera last week!

This event nearly seriously injured me later on. At the next roundabout the bus went all the way around, or what I assumed to be the bus. I was going to try and get details but then realised it was a different bus. I was on the roundabout and the car in front stopped because of traffic. I saw this too late and did an emergency stop, but only hit the front break. I don't know how, but somehow I let go of the brake and went around the car. Had I not I'd of gone through the rear window. I felt my body shooting forward.

I have already gone to our on campus security about this as I want to make the on site PCSO aware of this (second time I've had close serious problem with buses). I also plan on writting to the bus company directly. I'll also make the police officer who should be phoning me this week to update me on the last bus aware of this.

If the bus company wish to file a complaint against me they are more than welcome. I've already got the ball rolling in making sure that the police are aware of the accident.

Does anyone have any advice for situations like this. I'm not going to be offended if you don't think my action was correct. I do own an airzound so could of used that. hmm. we will see.

 

[marinyork]

Roundabouts are a nightmare. When I was in York it was a big problem especially on mini roundabouts. You should not be overtaking on roundabouts or really anywhere near them. Shouting was the best option. If you doubt what you should be doing the highway code has an entire section dedicated to roundabouts. I'm not sure about reporting to the police but that's your decision.

To stop this happening you need to take an ultra primary position before the roundabout, at the white lines and going around it. A bus is a large vehicle and overtaking anywhere near a roundabout is foolish. A bus I was on tried once and ended up damaging it's axles on the island.

 

[thomas]

On the way up I was at a safe distance to the edge of the road. I had let a few cars past and when I wanted to go further into the road I noticed the bus as it was tailgating/trying to get past. I therefore couldn't safely move more into the road which I always make an effort of doing.

Shouting would of been a good option but my reaction was a much more physical one. No damage was done to the bus and I did stop after so that we could go to the police station.

I am aware of the highway code stance, I was asking more on what to do to protect myself when things do go wrong.

I have drafted this letter for the bus company.

Re: Bus route 21 incident


Dear Peter Iddon,


I am writing to make you aware of a serious incident that happened between me (a cyclist) and one of your buses. I am sure you have already been made aware of this by the driver and driver passenger on the off duty 21 route single decker first bus. The incident happened between 3.45pm to 4.00pm (09/11/08) outside the police station on the Earlham road.


When coming up to the roundabout where the police station is, a bus was tailgating very closely. Just before the junction the driver decided to get in front of me, by over taking with inches to spare. To make sure the driver was aware of me, so that he did not turn in on me at the roundabout, as well as to get him to move out from me, I banged numerous times on the side of the bus with my hand.


After this the driver and driver passenger yelled threatening and physical abuse out of the open door at the roundabout. The bus hadn't managed to get past me which partially shows how unnecessary the over take was.


On the other side of the roundabout I stopped, pointing at the police station to show how we should report the incident, but instead the driver's decided to carry on with the verbal abuse and leave the scene of the incident.


Though my reaction to the close overtake may seem very brutal, under the highway code (rule 163) it is stated that overtaking drivers must “give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car.”. If a vulnerable road user can touch a dangerously overtaking road user then this rule is not being followed. I also believe that my action of self defence was very under stated due to the potential hazard a large bus could cause a cyclist.


If I had not made my self aware to the driver and if he had turned left at the roundabout he would have driven me off the road. As he never got his rear wheels past me at the junction I would not of been able to see his indicators for the junction. If there had been a pothole, branch or other hazard in the road that I would have needed to avoid, I would not have been able to. Therefore your driver's lack of judgement could have seriously consciences.


I have already filed a report with on campus security and will be filing one out with the on campus PCSO. I will also be updating the Earlham police station who I already have a record of poor driving by another bus driver on file.


I believe you need to update your drivers on overtaking other road users with the risks they face to cyclists being a priority. I am a CTC cycling club member. As part of this I have insurance and legal cover. Unless a satisfactory outcome can be made I will be contacting my legal assistance to pursue my claim of dangerous and intimidating driving against your company.

any thoughts?

 

[John the Monkey]

Good luck.

My personal experience suggests that the company will apologise, perhaps sending you a nice leaflet, and a promise to have a word with the driver. Their drivers will probably carry on in much the same way thereafter. Magnatom has had rather more success, I believe.

 

[BentMikey]

Do nothing, and nothing will happen. Do something, and there's a chance your complaint will have an effect.

It does peeve me when people are so negative about the effects of letters/complaints. They certainly don't always work, but many do. Making them public and letting the company know is applying pressure, and making youtube video public even more so, increasing the chances of some action being taken. More of us not taking abuse lying down and rolling over for the bullies and instead complaining is essential.

 

[thomas]

Well, I'm going to print the letter tomorrow and post it. I know what it's like as I've already complained to bus companies. Have to see what happens with that next week. The helmet camera should come by Wednesday (finger's crossed)...when I've got that hopefully everything will be on film to name and shame.

Worst case hopefully the bus has a nice bump from my fist (even though I know it doesn't I can pretend ).

 

[Tynan]

the entire point of a primary position is to try to prevent overtaking where there's not room, and to give yourself room to escap when there is encroachment

I olok forward to seeing what effect the motorbikes being allowed into the bus lanes have on the effectiveness of holding primary in the bus lane

 

[mr_cellophane]

Check your spelling "overtaking" is one word - at the beginning you have written it as 2.
Also "myself" is one word not 2

I would leave out

I will also be updating the Earlham police station who I already have a record of poor driving by another bus driver on file.

as it marks you down as someone who spends all their time complaining. The behaviour of another driver is not relevant to this complaint.

I will be contacting my legal assistance to pursue my claim of dangerous and intimidating driving against your company.

Not sure you can claim anything from them so I would not have this paragraph. There was no accident and no damage to you or your property.

 

[Twenty Inch]

Go for it. I had a good response from a similar letter in a similar situation.

 

[gratts]

I agree with all that mr_cell said.
Last sentence just seems fairly ridiculous!

 

[swee'pea99]

It may seem pointless and you will no doubt receive a standardised anodyne reply, but if noone complains, they get away with it completely, and who knows? you may be the fourth in succession, and trigger serious disciplinary action.

 

[thomas]

Yep. I noticed the spoollling errors but thanks for pointing them out! The only thought with the legal advice thing is to scare them into action....no? I've removed the other bus driver bit as I agree with the complainer argument!

I had edited it a bit since I posted the last one but here's another draft

I am writing to make you aware of a serious incident that happened between me (a cyclist) and one of your buses. I am sure you have already been made aware of this by the driver and driver passenger on the off duty 21 route single decker First bus. The incident happened around 3.45pm to 4.00pm (09/11/08) outside the police station on the Earlham road. I only got a good look at the driver passenger who was white, no more than 6 foot tall, dark thick hair.


When coming up to the roundabout where the police station is, a bus was tailgating very closely and stopping me from getting into a safe position for the roundabout. Moments before the junction the bus driver decided to get in front of me, by overtaking with inches to spare. As an initial reaction to make sure the driver was aware of me I banged numerous times on the side of the bus with my hand. This was so that he did not turn in on me at the roundabout, as well as to get him to give me the safe and legal amount of space I should have been given.


After this the driver and driver passenger yelled threatening and physical abuse out of the open door at the roundabout. The bus had not managed to get past me which partially shows how unnecessary the attempted over take was.


On the other side of the roundabout I stopped, pointing at the police station to show how we should report the incident, but instead the drivers decided to carry on with the verbal abuse and leave the scene of the incident.


Though my reaction to the close overtake may seem very brutal, under the highway code (rule 163) it is stated that overtaking drivers must “give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car.”. If a vulnerable road user can touch an overtaking road user then this rule is not being followed. I also believe that my action of self defence was very under stated due to the potential hazard a large bus could caused a cyclist. As the driver incorrectly overtook I do not accept any liability for any damage caused to the bus.


If I had not made myself aware to the driver and if he had turned left at the roundabout he would have driven me off the road. As he never got his rear wheels past me at the junction I would not of been able to see his indicators for the junction. If there had been a pothole, branch or other hazard in the road that I needed to avoid, I would not have been able to. Norfolk is well known for being windy, had there been a gust when he had overtaken I could have been pushed under the bus. Therefore your driver's lack of judgement could have seriously consciences.


I have already filed a report with on campus security and will be filling one out with the on campus police officer. I encourage you to check your buses' CCTV footage as evidence to my letter.


I believe you need to update your drivers on overtaking other road users with the risks they face to cyclists being a priority. I truly believe the actions I took against your bus could have saved my life. I request a letter, phone call or email back within 14 days of sending this letter with your outcome and what you will do in light of this incident, otherwise I will take matters further.

Maybe the "save my life" bit is a bit wishy washy but I want to highlight that the situation was serious.

Also, banging on close cars - acceptable?

 

[In trouble]

If I could add..........you mention the foul and abusive language you recieved, make sure that you include some of it verbatum. Writing about threatening and physical abuse is different to saying "and then your driver called me a f***ing c*** and a ***** and then threatned me with punching my lights out etc..." etc...

Then put in how their actions have affected you, ie you were insulted, felt threatened and in fear of your personal safety etc...

Also add in that you banged the bus to make sure the driver was aware of you, adding on a sentence such as "as on a bicyle you have no horn or other attraction device, hence it was necessary for you to bang the side of the bus to gain the attention of the driver". This then justifies your actions, and gives the reasons for them. Hope that makes sense.

As for your 'banging on close cars - acceptable? - I think the above clears that, you can't be critised for trying to save your own life.

Otherwise good letter.

 

[John the Monkey]

It does peeve me when people are so negative about the effects of letters/complaints.

You're right of course Mikey - I'm in a grump after my second off this year (another one caused by a driver too impatient to wait half a second) and the certain knowledge that the only penalty that driver will receive is a slight increase in their insurance premium next year.

I've complained to Finglands (the company operating the bus that knocked me off in July) previously about the impatience of their drivers, having nearly been clipped by one last year. (A poorly judged overtake by the driver next to a traffic island). Ironically the same vehicle (not the same driver) was responsible for my collision with the tarmac in July, again due to a poorly judged overtake.

 

[thomas]

Also add in that you banged the bus to make sure the driver was aware of you, adding on a sentence such as "as on a bicyle you have no horn or other attraction device, hence it was necessary for you to bang the side of the bus to gain the attention of the driver". This then justifies your actions, and gives the reasons for them. Hope that makes sense.

Technically I do have a bike horn but I'll be honest and say I've not always found it that reactive. I've still had people cut across and so on. The drivers probably would have been a little bit mouthy about honking, compared to very loud and obscene after banging on most of the windows.

I think one of the problems I have in situations like this is reacting. I don't think I yelled, I sort of freeze up in some respects. I'm a little bit worried that the driver's don't know the point of the banging. Though it obviously made them aware - do they just think I go up to buses and bang on windows? In othe situations my brain just sort of yells internally while I swerve/stop/etc.

I've spoken to the campus police officer who say he'll phone the bus company but other than that he won't do anything else. If it happens again (and I get a number plate) more can be done. I'm still going to post the letter. Part of me is thinking that the drivers won't have reported it and as I hit the bus the company might be annoyed with them for having not....which could get them in more trouble than the bad overtaking - who knows.

I must say, the campus security guard had a much better reaction to the police officer. I did think the police officer probably needs to experience a situation like this first hand before getting involved, where as the security guard did realise that a cyclist wouldn't fair well against a bus.

+1 UEA security -1 the police.