cloth list

[ch3]

I am in the process of making a long list of clothes I need to buy for my two months tour in France and Italy, starting just after mid August. I though I should share it with you, hoping to hear some advice on what else I need, what I don't really need in order to save money and weight, or what I should buy on the way as the weather gets colder.

- Things I need to buy
2 lycra shorts
2 tShirts/base layer/jerseys
3 cycling shocks
1 thermal tights
1 thermal long sleeve
1 zip-off trousers that double as shorts
1 fleece
1 waterproof jacket
1 mitts
1 overshoes

- Thing I already have and I am thinking of carring with me
1 Endura Short which come with padded liner
1 full finger gloves
1 flip flops
1 light summer shoes for evening
1 woolen hat for the cold nights
3 normal underwear
1 normal shocks

- And now the questions

For the Lycra, about how much money should I spend for a reasonable good quality? Any specific recommendation?

Plain tShirt, base layer or jersey? What is the difference?

On another post, many of you suggested merino thermals. Especially those made of 100% merino wool, are they good for cycling as well? Should I choose to wear a merino base layer while riding rather than a tShirt or a jersey?
In terms of size and style, should I choose well fitted thermals, base layer etc or more relaxed ones?

I have still not decided whether a cheap waterproof jacket will be enough, or if I definitely need to invest on a proper goreTex one.

I am thinking I will leave the overshoes for later on, or should I just get them now?


pffff... too many things to buy, too many options, too many questions!
Sorry for my long posts... I really appreciate your help!

Good night

 

[simon_brooke]

- And now the questions

For the Lycra, about how much money should I spend for a reasonable good quality? Any specific recommendation?

The cheapest I'd trust would probably be the Co-op's own brand, either their six panel or eight panel.

Plain tShirt, base layer or jersey? What is the difference?

On another post, many of you suggested merino thermals. Especially those made of 100% merino wool, are they good for cycling as well? Should I choose to wear a merino base layer while riding rather than a tShirt or a jersey?

A t-shirt is usually knited cotton. It holds sweat, gets damp and stinky, and when wet is very cold. Base-layers are essentially t-shirts made out of 'technical materials' (which is to say, fancy mixes of mainly synthetic materials). Jerseys are heavier weight garments designed to be worn as an outer layer.

The 'technical materials' all tend to wick sweat away quicker than cotton, and consequently stay drier, and not get so smelly so quickly. Most of them have better insulating properties, especially when wet.

100% merino wool is very good indeed - probably the best from an insulation and wicking point of view. But it''s not as tough and hard wearing as a fabric which mixes merino with a synthetic, usually polyester.

In terms of size and style, should I choose well fitted thermals, base layer etc or more relaxed ones?

Well fitted, in my experience - both for comfort and for warmth.

I have still not decided whether a cheap waterproof jacket will be enough, or if I definitely need to invest on a proper goreTex one.

If a waterproof fails on you you can get very cold very quickly - as I know to my cost. Whether that means you need GoreTex is up to you, but whatever you take make sure it actually works.

I am thinking I will leave the overshoes for later on, or should I just get them now?

I've never found overshoes work well in the long term. If it rains seriously water will run down your legs and seep into the top of whatever footwear you're wearing (this includes Sealskin socks). Water also gets into overshoes through the cleat hole in the bottom. So they may add a layer of insulation for your feet but they won't keep them dry.

If you're cycle touring in wet places getting your shoes dry becomes a significant problem. People I know who do a lot of expedition touring use Shimano's cycling sandals, and I'm seriously thinking of getting a pair for my trip north next summer.

 

[Tim Bennet.]

I think as a general observation, I would say you have way too much stuff. There is no real increase in the amount of kit you need moving from a two day trip to a two year expedition. Only the amount of washing powder increases!

One of the dilemmas when touring is deciding between baggy shorts or lycra. I ride everywhere in lycra but except touring where I much prefer baggys. I take just one pair with a couple of pairs liners which are easier to wash and dry in rotation than full shorts. With a Brookes saddle, you don't need much more than that. Baggy shorts are much more acceptable around town and have pockets that are useful. Your zip off trousers would be back up cycling shorts if needs be.

For cycling tops I also prefer these collared 'travel' shirts you can get. (should be discounted in travel / climbing shops shortly). Again they can double as off bike decent shirts, although you need a 100% cotton one as well for towns on hot sunny days. No modern hi-tec synthetics works in the heat as well as cotton.

For a waterproof jacket I prefer a lightweight mountaineering style (Rab eVent) jacket. The hood is large enough to go over your helmet and makes a massive difference to keeping dry as nothing goes down the neck. Cycling tops without hoods are nowhere near as good.

Simple thin waterproof nylon overshoes are good, but have to be worn with lightweight over trousers. I used to never worry about overtrousers and over shoes, but I've now found the difference they make on wet days is worth the weight.


The modified list of "Things I need to buy"
1 pr extra pair of liners for Endura baggy shorts (below)
2 colourful, collared synthetic travel shirts (could be one as they dry instantly)
2 prs grey Smartwool socks
1 thermal tights ?
1 thermal T shirt plus cycling arm warmers
1 zip-off trousers that double as shorts
1 fleece
1 lightweight (Packlite or eVent) mountaineering waterproof jacket with hood
1 mitts
1 overshoes plus very lightweight over trousers

- Thing I already have and I am thinking of carring with me
1 Endura Short which come with padded liner
1 full finger gloves
1 flip flops
1 discreet 'trainer' type cycling shoes for everything
1 woolen hat/ buff for the cold nights
1 normal underwear
1 cotton smart shirt

The good thing about France and Italy, is they do have shops! Start light and you can always buy anything you really are missing. Take too much and the surplus is never obvious as you will probably find a use for it.

 

[jay clock]

- Things I need to buy
2 lycra shorts
For ease of washing do not get bib shorts

2 tShirts/base layer/jerseys
I have very cheap but very light Decathlon £7.95 cycling shirts ( half a dozen bright colours) which wash and dry very fast. If the weather is not going to be above about 25 I have these merino mix shirts from Ground Effect - simply a beautiful bit of kit, and I love the understated retro look http://www.groundeffect.co.nz/product-detail-MED-SUM.htm
3 cycling shocks
3 lots of socks? 2 maximum. If you buy modern materials they dry in seconds, partic if stuck on the end of a not air blower in a loo! In fact I use SPD sandals, so no socks if not below about 12 degrees
1 thermal tights
could you manage with leg warmers?
1 thermal long sleeve
I have a merino base layer like this http://theeverydaycyclist.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/icebreaker-oasis-bodyfit-200-merino-base-layer/ - very much a multi use item
1 zip-off trousers that double as shorts
I have a pair (size 34 in blue Craghopper Kiwi) if you want to buy them (I lost weight!)
1 fleece
nice and light
1 waterproof jacket
I bought a Goretex Paclite from Berghaus a few years back and it works well. The cycling specific ones are too snug for my liking and also although hi viz is good, not so practical off the bike
1 mitts
1 overshoes
Yes, goretex style not neoprene in my view

- Thing I already have and I am thinking of carring with me
1 Endura Short which come with padded liner
1 full finger gloves
1 flip flops
1 light summer shoes for evening
Think carefully about this. TWO pairs of off bike shoes? Weigh them. Even the flip flops will be 250g. On my May tour to France I managed fine with just SPD sandals - If you do go for something I have these and find they do a great job in terms of flexibility and comfort (mine are actually desert camo) http://www.sanuk.com/product/225136/SMF1001/_/VAGABOND
1 woolen hat for the cold nights
3 normal underwear
If you wear them after an evening shower for 3 hrs, then one pair of modern micro fibre ones will wash and dry in seconds
1 normal shocks
That would make 4 pairs of socks. One or two total is perfectly feasible


- And now the questions

For the Lycra, about how much money should I spend for a reasonable good quality? Any specific recommendation?

Plain tShirt, base layer or jersey? What is the difference? I have a plain black technical base layer from Decathlon that is non shiny and looks like a cotton t shirt. Smart enough for travel of this type. Avoid cotton. At a push cheaper polo shirts have a high polyester content and look ok. On eoff bike shirt should be ok. Partic if cool in the evenings as you can wear another item underneath, avoiding directly sweating onto it. If cool, I often just wear the next day's cycling kit with other stuff on top, so do not even get the off bike kit dirty.

On another post, many of you suggested merino thermals. Especially those made of 100% merino wool, are they good for cycling as well? Should I choose to wear a merino base layer while riding rather than a tShirt or a jersey? See above - I have cycling jersyes, but if it was very cool I would use the merino long sleeve base layer as well
In terms of size and style, should I choose well fitted thermals, base layer etc or more relaxed ones? Depends on preference. Personally since I lost weight I realised I look massively better in snugger fitting stuff

I have still not decided whether a cheap waterproof jacket will be enough, or if I definitely need to invest on a proper goreTex one.see above

I am thinking I will leave the overshoes for later on, or should I just get them now?

In addition to the above I have a lightweight cycling specific gilet in hi viz, plus a superlight nylon jacket (folds up the size of an orange). All this stuff allows layering to get warmth.

Please don't think I am some superlight freak. I took a laptop and a 900g airbed but I learnt my lesson in NZ when I had too much stuff!

I have yet to see a journal of anyone moaning about taking too little on tour!

 

[jay clock]

having read the other replies, just glad to see we generally agree!

A couple of extra points

The Ground Effect tops are 50% merino so warm when damp

SPD sandals are indeed FANTASTIC. I did an all day ride in heavy rain on Saturday. The other three riders still had wet shoes for Sunday. I didn't!

On the baggy short front, I do have some. They are great and do look better off the bike. My only comment would that the inner shorts MUST be removable. A friend has Altura ones with built in liners and they take about a month to dry

Have a look here www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/france2009 and here http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nz if you want to read my ramblings about what I did and didn't do

 

[ch3]

I think the main problem is that I don't have any previous experience with cycle tour and my first one will be two months long. So as you understand I am heavily relying on others advices and tips. I've never used lycras, or base layers and all the other technical clothing before and it was only a month ago that I got my first SPD shoes. I may have already made some wrong decisions on gear choice for the bike, which I'll probable find out on the way. But I guess that's part of the fun (or not)=]
One of those may be about the shoes. I see many people recommend the SPD sandals, but I don't think I'll replace my newly bought shoes. I don't know if it will work, but maybe I will try to cycle on my flipflops when it rains. My pedals are half SPD, half normal, so maybe they do the trick... =

One of the dilemmas when touring is deciding between baggy shorts or lycra. I ride everywhere in lycra but except touring where I much prefer baggys. I take just one pair with a couple of pairs liners which are easier to wash and dry in rotation than full shorts. With a Brookes saddle, you don't need much more than that.

Instead of a second pair of liner, should I not get one Lycra and wear it under the short like the liner? I don't have a Brookes saddle, I know they are the best.

For a waterproof jacket I prefer a lightweight mountaineering style (Rab eVent) jacket. The hood is large enough to go over your helmet and makes a massive difference to keeping dry as nothing goes down the neck. Cycling tops without hoods are nowhere near as good.

I see your point about the hood. Initially I thought it was unnecessary and I was thinking of removing it. =
At the moment I am looking into these two options, which are on sales at the moment. I think it's the second one which have the goretex type material right?
Totolom
Korjak

2 prs grey Smartwool socks

Will they not be to warm for cycling?

could you manage with leg warmers?

Are thermals tights purely for winter then? So maybe something as cheap as this will probable be enought?

Think carefully about this. TWO pairs of off bike shoes?

Ok no summer shoes, just flip flops, with two pair of cycling shocks.

Have a look here www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/france2009 and here http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nz if you want to read my ramblings about what I did and didn't do

Cool, that's a bed night reading.

 

[Globalti]

Typical European Autumn weather is warm sunny days with heavy stroms in the evenings so I would definitely take a good Gortex cag and overtrousers as a basic comfort/survival setup.

For a base layer I would simply take the good old Helly Hansen Lifa top, they are a brilliant garment and have been justifiably popular over many years. I wouldn't take anything in cotton apart from maybe one evening T shirt.

 

[Tim Bennet.]

As you go down France, Decathlon is your friend. You will be much more experienced cycle-touriste after a week on the road and can refine your gear as you go by shopping at these!

Your shoes will be fine. The sandal thing is definitely a personal preference of some, but not one I like at all on the bike and certainly not in the rain. But others do.

Wool socks are more important the hotter it gets. When you see sheep switch to cotton or coolmax, then it will be the time to change. Marino sheep are from the desert!

Do your baggy shorts have removable liners? If so just two pairs are all you need.

That Totolom jacket looks the sort of thing.

 

[HelenD123]

I wouldn't recommend trying to cycle in your flip flops. They'll slip off far to easily and have too soft a sole. Trust me, I've tried it.

 

[ch3]

Have a look here www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/france2009 and here http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nz if you want to read my ramblings about what I did and didn't do

I read the france 2009 last night and I found it very informative as I am planning to do the same route, but the other way. I am also about to buy the same tent, so I am happy that you were happy about it. I didn't think it would fit inside a pannier.

Typical European Autumn weather is warm sunny days with heavy stroms in the evenings so I would definitely take a good Gortex cag and overtrousers as a basic comfort/survival setup.

I think you are right. Yesterday it was so hot all day here in London, but in the afternoon it started raining like hell untill midnight or something. I definitely need waterproofs.

Your shoes will be fine. The sandal thing is definitely a personal preference of some, but not one I like at all on the bike and certainly not in the rain. But others do.

I am glad to hear. I heard people wearing them without shocks in case of a rain, so they dry faster. Is that true?

Do your baggy shorts have removable liners?

Yes

I wouldn't recommend trying to cycle in your flip flops. They'll slip off far to easily and have too soft a sole. Trust me, I've tried it.

ok, just another crazy idea!
=]