Commuting & Tramlines

Having 'come a cropper' this evening - what should I do ?


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gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
Take primary. and go across them moving from primary to further to the right.. may look weird but i use this tactic often on croydon tram lines
 
Location
Edinburgh
What a terrible design for cyclist safety!

I think it would all depend on the amount of traffic at the time, you need to cross them as square as possible.

Options that occur to me with minimal tram crossing experience are:
1) Drift left with them and turn to cross staying in the inside lane. Possible problem with sharp turn just before you cross.
2) As they cross from lane 2 into lane 1 perform an overtake to change from lane 1 to lane 2. Possible problems with confusing drivers.
3) Follow them to the left, dismount and cross on foot to remount after them.

None of these are particularly nice. I will be interested to see what others suggest.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
Touche said:
What a terrible design for cyclist safety!

I think it would all depend on the amount of traffic at the time, you need to cross them as square as possible.

Options that occur to me with minimal tram crossing experience are:
1) Drift left with them and turn to cross staying in the inside lane. Possible problem with sharp turn just before you cross.
2) As they cross from lane 2 into lane 1 perform an overtake to change from lane 1 to lane 2. Possible problems with confusing drivers.
3) Follow them to the left, dismount and cross on foot to remount after them.

None of these are particularly nice. I will be interested to see what others suggest.
4. Bunny hop them.
 
That looks a terrible layout! I was about to ask where the lines come from, then I realised we were on google maps, not a photo, so I could pan it around and see for myself! So this is a central reserve tramway which suddenly veers over to the left to take in a tram stop. Who has right of way when a tram wants to cut across the line of cars, I wonder?

I don't know all of the Croydon tram network but I know this spot, though I haven't cycled on that stretch of road - at least not since the tramway was laid down. Equally treacherous.

I don't think there is a solution, not with tram rails aligned as in these examples. To be honest, a tramway which stays in a defined lane on either side of the defined carriageway, and parallel to it, is safer because you can simply keep clear of it. And sharp bends (which trams are designed to be well able to cope with) are also negotiable - with care. But sharp bends slow the tram down, and it seems the lines are designed with speed of tram in mind, rather than safety of cyclist.
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
661-Pete said:
I don't know all of the Croydon tram network but I know this spot, though I haven't cycled on that stretch of road - at least not since the tramway was laid down. Equally treacherous.
There pretty simple, if i've come from selsdon, and i've been lucky at the roundabout i can be doing 30mph when going over them!
 
661-Pete said:
That looks a terrible layout! I was about to ask where the lines come from, then I realised we were on google maps, not a photo, so I could pan it around and see for myself! So this is a central reserve tramway which suddenly veers over to the left to take in a tram stop. Who has right of way when a tram wants to cut across the line of cars, I wonder?

.



The traffic is controlled by lights; so the tram sits and waits 'til the lights are red.

A tram was was waiting, and the lady tram driver did wave and gesture if I was ok ! Must happen a lot at that spot, bet it's got a few moped & motorcyclist too.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
I don't have to cross them frequently but these ones are one my route:
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&h...=AqxH8WwjoT9ZKOrBmXQYKg&cbp=12,250.81,,0,-3.6

when I take a route along the docks... did them yesterday in the wet... the advantage I have over you is that I can go slowly and only have to worry about cyclists and pedestrians rather than cars normally. (And that there are alternative routes if I wanted to avoid them.)
 
Touche said:
What a terrible design for cyclist safety!

I think it would all depend on the amount of traffic at the time, you need to cross them as square as possible.
+1 that layout is verrrrrrry cyclist unfriendly. I wonder if a safety audit highlighted it at design! I've had no problems with tram lines in either Dublin or Edinburgh but I've always be able to cross them at near right angles. It might not be possible but can you vary your route to cross them at angle?
 

Stephenite

Membå
Location
OslO
I think you should persevere. (set in disclaimer here)

If you're unsure, slow down. Look behind you. Signal and make eye contact with the driver behind, if possible. Manoveur decisively.

The front wheel needs to cross the tramline at about 30-45 degrees (a little twist or wobble of the front wheel should suffice when you become more confident). After the front wheel has passed lean forward, taking your weight off the back wheel, and you will/should find the rear of the bike just rides over.

I have to cross five lines at one point. Its usually at night on my home from work. The road surface is absolutely atrocious, and with the past few months clumps of snow and ice have added to the fun.

Here it is: (bear in mind here they drive/ride on the right, and i'm coming from behind where the photo is taken and want to go left at the fork)

http://maps.google.no/maps?hl=no&ie...=CoupX_KuAIzkD5_auSxqVg&cbp=12,51.25,,0,39.43
 

Shaun

Founder
Moderator
Agreed. I would get off, or bunny hop accross them.

I now use this technique on the railway crossing on Spring Bank West in Hull, next to Walton Street (anyone from Hull will know exactly which crossing I'm talking about - it must take down at least 1 cyclist per day when it's damp/wet).

My incident (20+ mph onto a wet rail track that nabbed my front wheel and face-planted me across two road lanes!!) left me with a broken finger, badly bruised left thigh and shoulder, and a few bent bits on the bike too.

Now I slow right down when approaching the crossing (signalling my intent to drivers behind me), and take a slow and steady hop across the rails.

Better losing a few seconds than breaking another finger ... :becool:

Cheers,
Shaun :tongue:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...0772,-0.375643&spn=0.000381,0.001316&t=k&z=20
 

Davidc

Guru
Location
Somerset UK
Not a nice crossing.

I've met plenty of rail tracks, tram and train, in Britain and elsewhere and they are often difficult. They're one thing that's very cyclist unfriendly in The Netherlands as well.

My best effort has been to try to get the angle of crossing as near 90 deg as I can.

My greatest moan is when disused tracks are just left to rot and wreck bike wheels. Weymouth has some good examples - will they be gone by the time the 'cycle friendly' 2012 olympics arrive there? There are still some in Bristol, and I'll stop there.
 
That Hull crossing (I take it this is a railway LC, not a tramline) looks, from the aerial view at least, just about on the margin of what I would consider negotiable, but evidently Shaun's account and experience would make one have to think again! A lot probably depends on how well the rails are flushed into the roadway. I have crossed railway LCs at 90° which I regard as hazardous, yet other LCs at angles like that one, which I consider safe.

But the Norway example above looks a no-no to me! A shame, because I've always thought of the Scandinavian countries as very cycle-friendly, and I would assume that at dangerous junctions like this one, cyclists would be offered a dedicated cycle path (which I would use in such circumstances). But perhaps that junction is too far out from the city centre, and road is too narrow, to merit this?

A word about the Croydon network, which is relatively modern (built about 10-15 years ago). Most of it is off-road or on dedicated lanes: indeed a long stretch (Croydon to Wimbledon) makes use of a former mainline railway track. So the issue of cycle interaction doesn't often occur. Most of the places where the rails are flushed with the normal road surface and can endanger cyclists, are in the town centre: the junction I illustrated is one of the exceptions being several miles out of town.
 
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