Consultation on moving cycle parking away from shops, closes Sun 13 Feb

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classic33

Leg End Member
Why not a direct link to the piece in question, as opposed to going through your site?
 

oldwheels

Legendary Member
Location
Isle of Mull
Aldi in Oban were supposed to have cycle racks but they are full of trolleys and not able to be used. Nowhere to padlock a bike without risking damage from passing trolleys.
Tesco is similar problem as trolleys for wheelchair users take up the space. The cycle parking for bikes at Lidl is across the other side of the car park but behind cars and not easy to access if cars are parked in front.
 

si_c

Guru
Location
Wirral
Aldi in Oban were supposed to have cycle racks but they are full of trolleys and not able to be used. Nowhere to padlock a bike without risking damage from passing trolleys.
Tesco is similar problem as trolleys for wheelchair users take up the space. The cycle parking for bikes at Lidl is across the other side of the car park but behind cars and not easy to access if cars are parked in front.
Aldi near me tends to have outdoor plants and/or screenwash pallets in the bike racks. I tend to lock up to the trolley park.
 

Mike_P

Guru
Location
Harrogate
Another with an Aldi whose bike stands are typically a trolley park, but it was not a problem during lockdown when many trolleys were locked out of use.
 

GeekDadZoid

Über Member
Most of the modern supermarkets will most likely have had to provide a travel plan for their planning application and therefore if they block them off or allow them to be blocked then they are not fulfilling thier obligations.

I moaned at my local Lidl for allowing and leaving trolleys in the cycle storage, they ended up just closing it. After a few months of moaning someone told me about the travel plan and an email was dispatched to the planning department. It was reinstated within a week and since then they have put in measure to stop trolleys.
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
I'd really welcome anyone who likes parking near shops to remind my local Town Deal that cycle parking should be moved nearer to the shops, not further away. There's a link and explanation at http://www.klwnbug.co.uk/2022/02/10/sos-cyc:angry:le-parking-crisis/ with a link to the feedback form that closes on Sunday.
On the surface this seems worthy, but on closer examination I can't see any merit in your arguments. You start out by saying that the existing cycle racks are substandard, and then complain that building better ones is no good because they are two minutes walk further away. You then get side-tracked by talking about cycle parking elsewhere which has nothing to do with the proposed plans.

In the consultation, 84% of respondents said they would like to see secure cycle storage, and this has therefore been included - presumably at the nearest place such a facility could be built.

Further, if you read the action plan, what is actually stated is that :-
Secure cycle parking hubs should be provided at key transport locations and toward the edges of the Kings Lynn "walking Zone"... proposed locations are Kings Lynn Rail Station, St James Swimming Pool, Baker Lane Car Park and Ferry Street public toilets. In addition to these cycle hubs, suitable positions for cycle stands should be identified close to attractors within the walking zone but should not detract from the walking routes.
So - what is it exactly that is getting your knickers in a twist?

It all looks good to me, and I don't see that moaning about moving some cycle parking a few hundred feet is going to make a positive look for cyclists.
 
OP
OP
mjr

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
In the consultation, 84% of respondents said they would like to see secure cycle storage, and this has therefore been included - presumably at the nearest place such a facility could be built.
That presumption is incorrect. There are several other locations that this hub could be provided, such as where existing cycle routes actually meet the "walking zone", not on the route they've not bothered to build into town yet (and we have no indication that work will start any time soon). Baxter's Plain, in between shops, restaurants, the forthcoming community hub (library+more) and a recently-approved mixed-use development at the Athenaeum would be my choice, but maybe the Transport Interchange (bus station) would be better as a first one. Both of those are on signed NCN 1.

And 84% of respondents saying they want secure cycle storage does not imply at all that they want to lose any short-term cycle parking as well, does it?

Further, if you read the action plan, what is actually stated is that :-

So - what is it exactly that is getting your knickers in a twist?
Slick marketing hiding the loss of short-stay cycle parking, contrary to the action plan's "suitable positions for cycle stands should be identified close to attractors". Next to the central crossroads on High Street is a very suitable position for cycle stands!

And I'm grumpy about inappropriate siting of the first cycle hub in a busy car park, on the far side of the town centre cycling ban (the N-S street parallel immediately east of the yellow route and the four roads east from it, basically) and difficult to reach from the existing cycle routes (the red one and the two green straights directly connected to it). Edit: here's my doodles on the map to show the absurdity of the SW cycle hub (purple rectangle) being the first built:
1645465249498.png

I should probably also have noted that you can't cycle out of the SW gate of the park with the X-shaped path layout under the "Only these three..." text and the street between the two southernmost "no cycling" street ends is one-way eastbound, so anyone wanting to reach the hub from the existing cycle routes will have to ride a few hundred metres and several junctions of A road. I know some here would, but it won't be for everyone.

More cynical people than me have suggested that Vision will spend lots of money on a building for the hub with minimal cycling-specific fittings, then plead poverty and never build the connecting cycle route, then say the cycle hub is under-used and convert it to some other use, with the money spent not returning to any cycling budget.

It all looks good to me, and I don't see that moaning about moving some cycle parking a few hundred feet is going to make a positive look for cyclists.
The current parking is not moving because the hub parking is a totally different thing. In the words of current government policy, "Short stay parking should be located on-street
rather than in hubs or shelters.". The short-stay cycle parking is being removed, as far as we know yet.

We've been told the companion edge-of-town hub will be access-controlled, pre-booked and so on. It may be pay-for: that's still undecided. We expect the centre hubs to be similar. Few cyclists who are currently comfortable using the short-term parking will prebook. I see the hub as more for the "I would cycle to work if only there was somewhere safe to leave my bike" market who work in nearby buildings, especially historic ones with no cycle store or easy way to add one, plus maybe some tourism and (when at rail or bus stations) last-leg travel use.

But even if it was moving away, that would be a policy-busting discouragement of cycling: one reason why Norfolk's parking standards require cycle parking to be closer to shop/office entrance doors than car parking spaces is that it helps to make cycling faster than driving for more short journeys. You know, trip time = (distance cycled or driven) / (average vehicle speed) + (distance walked) / (average walking speed). Outside of rush hour, we do have a disadvantage of average vehicle speed being lower for cycling, but it is remedied a bit by making the distance walked lower for cycling too by putting cycle parking nearer destinations than car parking.

Anyway, thanks for your prompting to elaborate and set out in words more of the arguments, and thanks to everyone who responded to the call before the deadline. We've been offered a meeting and are trying to find a mutually-convenient date. I think we've also been told the under-threat parking will remain for at least 4 months.
 
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icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Anyway, thanks for your prompting to elaborate and set out in words more of the arguments, and thanks to everyone who responded to the call before the deadline. We've been offered a meeting and are trying to find a mutually-convenient date. I think we've also been told the under-threat parking will remain for at least 4 months.
Thanks for the elaboration. It really does bring a lot of clarity to where the issues are, and I think that you really need that level of detail in order to challenge the current plans - which as you say, have been carefully laid out so that most people will go "well - looks fine to me".

Hopefully, you will gain some headway.
 
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